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I must say I like your assumption that all the millions of Vietnamese people killed were combatants, interesting, no civilians at all?
Marine Corps, 1/9... "The Walking Dead", so called by none other than Ho Chi Minh, and we took the name to rub his face in it. Two tours, 26 months total, not counting medical leave for recuperation from wounds.
You might investigate and read up on the 1/9. We were in the midst, and got not simply a bite of the shite sandwich, but ate the whole damned thing. And then went back for seconds...
When I speak of Vietnam? It comes from a perspective of having BEEN THERE, not from the slurping up of lies and distortions within a canard created for political gain... unlike some who post here.
I addressed COMBATANTS terminated, and do not even begin to discuss civilian casualties. And there were far more targeted civilian casualties by the NVA and VC acts of domestic terrorism, than there were collateral casualties by US forces.
Again... I WAS THERE. Were you? :rolleyes:
http://www.vvaw.org/about/warhistory.php
Interesting to note further that this episode in our longrunning history of self-justified interventionism, having nothing whatsoever to do with protecting our nation but rather imposing Washington's will (and that of the big money which owns it) on lesser nations, continues to divide our nation. If we won, as Globe would like to believe, then it is a hollow victory indeed and one characterised by as yet long unhealed wounds upon our national psyche.
I suppose Globe and his knee jerk anti-democratic comrades will gleefully rejoice in the slaughter of American citizens on the Kent State campus as solid patriotic duty, whilst claiming to love our nation and its citizens. Some victory.
In the end this chapter in US history only further underscores the need for thorough present day scrutiny and exposure of the machinations of the MIC and the means it employs to justify its for profit "meat grinder" mentality to a public regularly kept woefully misinformed of our nationalistic misdeeds outside our shores.
At least some who watched their friends and fellows slaughtered to serve the empty rhetoric of "democracy" have the intellectual honesty to acknowledge that the only real "winners" in all of this were, as remains true today, our big money interests. The same industries desperate to keep the issue of military service (along with the contrived issue of character - based predominantly upon sexual fidelity) at the forefront of the public debate in order to divert attention away from the many deeper issues eating away at the fabric of our society.
Is this the best the republicans can drag up? Some random quote from North Vietnam, when they spend all their time saying how lying and traitorous the North Vietnamese were?
Oh, and Whowhere is wrong to say the war was "lost". But the war could never have been won, just like the war in Korea was never won.
Whilst Globe and co can but rant against some self concocted betrayal by Kerry for exercising his real patriotic duty to underscore the illegitimacy of a bogus corporate war, I argue that Kerry, as he stands today (a career Washington isider and as tied to corporate interest money as the incumbent) is no alternative to the very status quo that made Vietnam, let alone Afghanistan, Iraq, Panama, Grenada, (or any host of contrived interventions for MIC profit and political control) possible. By that same token, neither is Edwards.
Using the example of another historic betrayal of the American public by Washington as a yardstick by which measure qualifications only contributes to the diversionary agenda that has governed our electoral process for far too long and is thus flawed.
Ay!
Shitting themselves
shiting themselves.
Shi-shi-shitting themselves
the republicans are shitting themselves.
Whoey!
Any links on the 1/9 ? The Vietnam War is something I've read up on quite a lot over the years, the majority of the books have been from Vets who were there, from Mark Bakers 'Nam', Fuller/Goldman's 'Charlie Company' to Colin Powells autobiography, just to name a few.
What is clear that even amongst the Vets themselves there is widely differing views about the issues.
Edited to add: Globe, how about a reply to the other post, it would be nice to get a viewpoint from the American Right. You can't complain about liberal bias if your not prepared to educate us, plus I do get like to get differing views and decide from there. Momma didn't raise no sheep.
But Kerry wont win, this is 72 all over again.
Now that you mention it, it is going to be very interesting to see the British government's official position about the forthcoming elections in the US. Normally you would expect the Labour party to support the Democrats, just as the Tories support the Republicans. But as we all know Tony Blair's New Labour government has been the single most staunch supporter of the far right wing Republican administration of G.W. Bush.
My guess is Bliar and New Labour party officials will keep their mouth shut on the issue. Everybody knows they'd be supporting a Republican government but Bliar will not want to say so and make it 'official'- and thus wiping out the last vestiges of morality and decency from what was once a caring left of centre party.
You still withdrew, you realised you couldn't win. Your army isn't geared towards guerilla or urban warfare anywhere near a European or Asian one.
Your quoting of casualty stats, although interesting is irrelevant, the NVA KEPT COMING. You buggered off. The NVA was sufficiently powerful to take the whole country a mere 2 years later. Face it, you're a deadbeat. You can't picture your fantastic country losing at anything, let alone something like a stalemate war.
Your hitlerite higher uppers can't even stand the possibility of losing to someone who was also there so they have to concot lies about him.
You can't stand the thought that you may perish if you leave home without your trusty AK, even though in civilised parts of the world the people who feel the need to brandish a weapon are instantly labelled cowards.
And you think I'm dillusional? That's rich coming from a gun toting redneck like yourself, tell me does your pickup have confederate flags on it, or do you simply live in a mobile home and hang around some garbage cans with your viet vet buddies drinking beer?
You give me the choice, I'll take the nukes to the filth you dropped on Vietnam any day.
The full report: read it if you dare and then come back and give us your thoughts
And even with such hideous crimes against humanity you managed to lose the damned war. :rolleyes:
Still in denial of reality? :rolleyes:
Do you even allow yourself to be aware of the mission statement, concerning the engagement in Vietnam? That the US forces were there to prevent the NVA from over-running the South? That we were constrained by that mission statement from invading NVn, and a clear military victory? That over 90% of US forces had been withdrawn from Vietnam prior to the Easter Offensive of 1972, that the NVA came crashing through the DMZ, and we pushed them back, anyway, with a mere fraction of our troops? That by pushing North Vietnam to the tables in Paris (in 1973) WAS the victory, the fruition of that mission statement?
The US military did win the ground battle, which was betrayed by the lack of resolve by the politicians and far left civilian refusal to uphold the commitment to South Vietnam, and stood by as the NVA broke the accord, and invaded South Vietnam, once again.
No? Steelgate has had greater effect upon your simple mind than you realize: you are far along the path of becoming his willing pawn.
As for who I am, and the life I lead? You persist in your arrogant and ignorant muse, because the truth threatens you too deeply. The "personal attacks" here come from he who refuses to believe what actually happened, supported by signed accord, supported by testimony, conversation, and public proclamation by the leaders of the NVA, aka "the enemy".
The "deadbeat"? Would be the image within your own mirror...
And as far as what the US military is capable of, prepared and TOTALLY functional of? Until you have served within that military (or ANY military of note), you have not the slightest clue.
Again, deeply threatens your delusional existence, does it not?
From Kerry's Fake Warriors:
Kerry relied upon phonies and wannabes for support. His prominence has allowed current phonies and wannabes to continue the unsubstantiated allegations made all those years ago and which Kerry appears to condone even today. For example:
Elton Mazione, claiming Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) credentials, Kerry's original organization, along with his friends, John Laboon, Eddie Swetz, and Kenneth Van Lesser. They claimed to kill children and remove body parts as part of the notorious Phoenix program. They were neither in Phoenix nor in Vietnam.
Kerry's VVAW leader friend from 1971, Al Hubbard, lied about being an officer, Vietnam Veteran, and sustaining war injuries. Michael Harbert, another VVAW crony of Kerry, lied about his Vietnam service.
Frank Dux: He charged many recognizable Vietnam vets with using techniques bordering on war crimes. Dux was a fraud and non Vietnam Veteran.
Yoshia K. Chee claimed we in Vietnam routinely resorted to the most hideous forms of torture, threw people out of helicopters, and decapitated prisoners. He was a phony.
Mike Beamon, an alleged SEAL and Phoenix assassin, was never in the military.
The Senator's own VVAW and similar groups relied upon people like: K. Barton Osborn, a Vietnam veteran and testifier of atrocities to Congress. He told of prisoners being thrown out of helicopters, a woman starved to death, a prisoner being killed by a six inch dowel pushed through his ear. Osborn was not in Phoenix, refused to name names, and provided no documentation.
Lieutenants Francis Reitemeyer and Michael J. Cohn. Both sought conscientious objector status because of Phoenix. Reitemeyer testified to being assigned to Phoenix as an adviser and maintained a kill quota of fifty bodies a month. They became famous as My Lai hit the news. Neither served in Vietnam, in Phoenix, or had any first hand information. Reitemeyer later denied receiving any assassination training.
http://www.vnsfvetakerry.com/kerrys_fake_warriors.htm#IF%20YOU%20WOULD
What's known as 'the poor man's cocaine', Thanny, and used by fighter pilots to maintain performance?
Go-pills
We have done this in the past, not sure about present policy. LSD was tested on British troops in the 50s, I've seen the footage and its surreal. Squaddies going through their drill when tripping.
BTW Anybody remember the film 'Jacobs Ladder'?