continuing war lies.

Former Member

the prime minister of england and the president of the united states say they seem to have had bad inteligence. they were kept in the dark. others knew but didn't bother to tell them. others were saying all along ...there aren't any WMD'S ...just as we were on here before the invasion of iraq.
i'm sure there is no historical scenario to match this one.
surely the public must now demand these men not only resign but face the possibility of trial?

Former Member

The WMD argument was a load of nonsense, but who cares?

Saddam has been removed from power, and a country is now becoming a democracy for the first time.

That is all the justification we need.

Former Member

It's the principle of the thing. Yes, I agree Saddam should have been removed and our response for some of the things he has done was an appropriate one.
However they shouldn't have lied to us about it. They'd have done better by justifying the war from a truthful angle, rather than the WMD one if they knew it to be false.
The leaders of the 2 most powerful nations on Earth don't get "wrong intelligence".

Former Member

Originally posted by The Matadore
The WMD argument was a load of nonsense, but who cares?

Saddam has been removed from power, and a country is now becoming a democracy for the first time.

That is all the justification we need.

i care. and now the country is suffering terrorism for the first time. bloodshed in the streets and shopping centres. uncertainty. mass unemployment. eratic water and power supplies. while american companies owned by the very people who started all this make millions and steal millions and commit massive frauds for more millions.
who cares? millions of us. i don't think you grasp the seriousness of countries as rich and powerful as the uk and the usa getting together and invading another country based on bullshit. if we let them get away with this we are saying what to the world and it's people about us? what are we telling those who have power over us ...do what the hell you like and bullshit us as much as you want? you continue to put your trust in such men ...in such a political institute ...what happens to the democracy you so cherish?

Former Member

suffering terrorism for the first time

First time? What about the IRA?

bloodshed in the streets and shopping centres. uncertainty. mass unemployment. eratic water and power supplies

All because of a Labour Government.

i don't think you grasp the seriousness of countries as rich and powerful as the uk and the usa getting together and invading another country based on bullshit

I dont think you grasp the seriousness of the failure of multilateralism, or the threat from rogue states and terrorist networks, or the need to reassert Western values across the world.

Bullshit, I agree the WMD argument was, but it was because of people like you with your head in the sand that it was used.

if we let them get away with this we are saying what to the world and it's people about us?

Why did we let Saddam get away with it for over 11 years?

you continue to put your trust in such men ...in such a political institute ...what happens to the democracy you so cherish?

I assume you are speaking about American democracy? Its fine, thank you very much.

Former Member

Originally posted by The Matadore
First time? What about the IRA?



All because of a Labour Government.



I dont think you grasp the seriousness of the failure of multilateralism, or the threat from rogue states and terrorist networks, or the need to reassert Western values across the world.

Bullshit, I agree the WMD argument was, but it was because of people like you with your head in the sand that it was used.



Why did we let Saddam get away with it for over 11 years?




I assume you are speaking about American democracy? Its fine, thank you very much.

what a pile of bollox! the IRA were killing people in baghdad then? remembering the IRA was mostly funded by new yorkers!
what did saddam get away with for 11 years?
rouge states? was iraq some kind of threat to your western values ...if so in what way?
american democracy is almost dead ya daft cnunt!

Former Member

Right, I see, you were talking about Iraq, not Britain.

In that case...

suffering terrorism for the first time

terrorism? Take a look at this

what did saddam get away with for 11 years?

Basically violating every human right that exists, millions of times over.

rouge states? was iraq some kind of threat to your western values ...if so in what way?

Iraq was a rogue state, like North Korea (especially), Iran and Zimbabwe.

Iraq was not a direct threat to the US and UK, but that does not mean we shouldnt have freed its people and shows them the way forward into freedom.

american democracy is almost dead ya daft cnunt!

America is the most democratically advanced country in the world. It makes the most use of direct democracy, that is, letting people vote on issues which affect them. It is a very evenly split country with healthy left and right wings.

Former Member

Originally posted by The Matadore
Right, I see, you were talking about Iraq, not Britain.

In that case...




terrorism? Take a look at this



Basically violating every human right that exists, millions of times over.



Iraq was a rogue state, like North Korea (especially), Iran and Zimbabwe.

Iraq was not a direct threat to the US and UK, but that does not mean we shouldnt have freed its people and shows them the way forward into freedom.



America is the most democratically advanced country in the world. It makes the most use of direct democracy, that is, letting people vote on issues which affect them. It is a very evenly split country with healthy left and right wings.

you ever thought about taking mind expanding substances?

Former Member

I think he should if he hasn't already taken them.

Indrid Cold

And I heard they're going to give the nobel prize for peace to Bush and Blair? I really hope that's a lie, but I doubt it.
As someone I know said, mr. Nobel must be stirring in his grave...

Former Member

Originally posted by Zalbor
And I heard they're going to give the nobel prize for peace to Bush and Blair? I really hope that's a lie, but I doubt it.
As someone I know said, mr. Nobel must be stirring in his grave...

the world is truly going fucking mad! how people can defend their fucking lies and still believe in democracy is totaly beyond me. how can you vote for people you know are so fucking deceptive? i've been a labour man all my life ...i realy dread the thought of the tories getting in cos people like me cannot vote for bliars version of the labour party anymore.
what a mess.

Former Member

Originally posted by The Matadore
and a country is now becoming a democracy for the first time.

Really? Where? And how?

Former Member

I've been trying to find, without success, Blair's claim that if the public knew what he knew about Saddam's armaments, they would take a different view... Curious to know just what he though he knew, and if what he knew was correct, or a misunderstanding...

Former Member

Really? Where? And how?

Here

you ever thought about taking mind expanding substances?

You ever thought about responding properly to my posts?

Former Member

Originally posted by The Matadore
Here

And thats actually working is it?

Former Member

The WMD argument was a red-herring, as it was all along. And on't the people who feell for it look stupid now?

The real reason war was waged was to re-balance the Middle East into a pro-Western shape. It is seemingly working, especially with the oil, and any benefits of removing Saddam were merely incidental, an added bonus.

The war was never about WMD, or humaniatarian issues, they were just convenient excuses. Because, if humanity was the driving force, why don't I see the US Marines descending on Harare, and bringing Mugabe and his rape squads to justice?

Oh yeah, it's cos there's no oil in Zimbabwe.

Former Member

Wow, Kermit, we agree on something!

Former Member

foolishly though, invading two islamic countries in a row has resulted in widespread increases of anti western sentiment, demonstrating that you don't win hearts and minds by lobbing tomahawk missiles at their countries, establishing occupational control nor installing one's own preferred leaders in contravention of the self determination of the people themselves.

Former Member

And thats actually working is it?

Sure it is, it just takes time. It is dicfficult to Democratise a country that has never experienced Deomcracy before. Its only been a year, another couple will be required.

The real reason war was waged was to re-balance the Middle East into a pro-Western shape

What is wrong with doing that? Often the most humanitarian thing to do is to wage a war, we have the technology to do it without killing masses of people.

Oh yeah, it's cos there's no oil in Zimbabwe.

Zimbabwe is completly different to Iraq, but I agree that we should invade there and take out Mugabes dispicable regime as soon as possible.

Former Member

contravention of the self determination of the people themselves.

And the people had a chance under the Taliban or Saddam, did they?

Former Member

Originally posted by The Matadore
What is wrong with doing that?

Because its arrogant and a lot of the Iraqi people view the US with as much hatred as they did Saddam?

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Former Member

Originally posted by The Matadore
Often the most humanitarian thing to do is to wage a war, we have the technology to do it without killing masses of people.

War is Peace, right? Orwell would have been proud of you.

And we did kill masses of people.

Former Member

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
I've been trying to find, without success, Blair's claim that if the public knew what he knew about Saddam's armaments, they would take a different view...

i forgot about that one ...i'll have a look round see if i can find it. worth asking him that one seeing as he now says he didn't know what jeff hoon knew!

Former Member

Lets declare a peace and a general amnesty. Put the Taliban and Hussein back in place. The US and the UK have no business deposing the leaders of other countries regardless of what they do. If people are being raped, murdered, or tortured, it is no concern of ours.

Pulling out will make the people in those countries love us more! They will wish us well and the Al-Qaeda types will cease and desist. Those bad and evil Americans! How dare they force democracy on people. Who do they think they are?

The BBC is so unbiased in its reporting. It shows just how evil the Americans are.

Just a thought though.............

Why is it the British government knows where every Televison is located. Why is that those vans prowl the streets looking for those with unregistered TV's. Why is it that the unelected Queen and the House of Lords can screw up public policy?

Why is it that most multinational firms invest heavily in the USA?
Bad, evil Americans!

It is apparent that there are those on this board who hate America and its foreign policy. I especially love those who protest against oil companies but never show up at rallies riding bicycles!

Well Europeans can squeal all they want! We intend to do whatever is necessary to defend ourselves and we will not ask any countrys permission. Boycott American goods. Stop coming to visit America. We of course will recipricate. Pull all your investments out of the US. Go for it.

Organize against the evil Americans. We look forward to your actions and we'll respond in kind.

Enough of the rhetoric! Start the war against America now. Pull out all European money out of America. Why do business with those evil Americans? Evil immoral Americans!:wave: :wave:


Attack as you will with the usual hatred for all that is American. We shall respond with bellyy laughs as we defeat murderers.
We do so in our own defense and we seek no approval from those who would do nothing to defend themselves. Rave on MacDuff, we do as we please and most frustratingly to most of Europe is that there is not thing one you can do about it!:p

Former Member

What a strange fellow.

Former Member

Originally posted by Murph Redux
Lets declare a peace and a general amnesty. Put the Taliban and Hussein back in place. The US and the UK have no business deposing the leaders of other countries regardless of what they do. If people are being raped, murdered, or tortured, it is no concern of ours.

Pulling out will make the people in those countries love us more! They will wish us well and the Al-Qaeda types will cease and desist. Those bad and evil Americans! How dare they force democracy on people. Who do they think they are?

The BBC is so unbiased in its reporting. It shows just how evil the Americans are.

Just a thought though.............

Why is it the British government knows where every Televison is located. Why is that those vans prowl the streets looking for those with unregistered TV's. Why is it that the unelected Queen and the House of Lords can screw up public policy?

Why is it that most multinational firms invest heavily in the USA?
Bad, evil Americans!

It is apparent that there are those on this board who hate America and its foreign policy. I especially love those who protest against oil companies but never show up at rallies riding bicycles!

Well Europeans can squeal all they want! We intend to do whatever is necessary to defend ourselves and we will not ask any countrys permission. Boycott American goods. Stop coming to visit America. We of course will recipricate. Pull all your investments out of the US. Go for it.

Organize against the evil Americans. We look forward to your actions and we'll respond in kind.

Enough of the rhetoric! Start the war against America now. Pull out all European money out of America. Why do business with those evil Americans? Evil immoral Americans!:wave: :wave:


Attack as you will with the usual hatred for all that is American. We shall respond with bellyy laughs as we defeat murderers.
We do so in our own defense and we seek no approval from those who would do nothing to defend themselves. Rave on MacDuff, we do as we please and most frustratingly to most of Europe is that there is not thing one you can do about it!:p

what a plonker! the thread is about our democracy and yours being under threat ...we have corrupt and lying leaders ...i for one would rather vote for a leader who can be trusted to tell me the truth. here in the uk we have belmarsh jail as opposed to your guantanamo bay ...same prisoners with no rights ...here the british government is about to start interning british people without trial indefinately ...looks like the terrorists just might be destroying our democracies. fuck international law and opinion ...and you wonder why the rest of the world are looking at the usa and the uk with more and more suspicion! i have american family who are equaly alarmed at whats happening. our prime minister and your false president are lying when they say they knew nothing ...but the inteligence services and our defence secretary knew everything ...doesn't sound very inteligent to me. if the two captains of these ships of state don't know what the crew are up to ...then they shouldn't be the fucking captains ...simple realy.

Former Member

Originally posted by Murph Redux
Lets declare a peace and a general amnesty. Put the Taliban and Hussein back in place. The US and the UK have no business deposing the leaders of other countries regardless of what they do. If people are being raped, murdered, or tortured, it is no concern of ours.

Haven't heard such a high degree of ass dribble for quite a while. But feel free to stick around, Murph, it's really not been the same around here since Thanatos scuttled back to Mil.com (and after I went out of my way to defend his right to post here, and never had the favour returned). Tell us about how 'WMD programs' are so much more significant than actual WMDs, and how it's cheaper to bomb a country than inspect it. I suppose the 'no-fly zones' were pretty namby pamby, as well, 'post-September 11th' (are you one of the ones who got brainwashed into believing Iraq was behind that?)

Former Member

!

most frustratingly to most of Europe is that there is not thing one you can do about it!

Its so true!

Former Member

Originally posted by Blagsta
Because its arrogant and a lot of the Iraqi people view the US with as much hatred as they did Saddam?

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

But Who says we won't get fooled again?

Former Member

Question to Matadore and Murph: What do you think of Bush's new best friend Uzbekistan?

No human right issues to consider here? Why, the man in charge has a use for the US government, so they're more than welcome to carry on boiling people alive and sending 5 year olds to slave labour.

Right?

And another question for Matadore: since the US today is technically not a democracy (as a candidate cheated his way into power) and since it is universally acknowledged that George W. Bush constitutes the biggest danger there is to this planet, would you support force or violent means to remove him from power? Or do these tactics only apply to regimes for which your beloved masters have no further use?

Former Member

Originally posted by Murph Redux
Lets declare a peace and a general amnesty. Put the Taliban and Hussein back in place. The US and the UK have no business deposing the leaders of other countries regardless of what they do. If people are being raped, murdered, or tortured, it is no concern of ours.

What about female circumcision in Africa? There are human rights issues all over the world, execution... torture... but then there's a substantial amount of oil in Iraq... hrm, what a coincidence. :chin:

Pulling out will make the people in those countries love us more! They will wish us well and the Al-Qaeda types will cease and desist. Those bad and evil Americans! How dare they force democracy on people. Who do they think they are?

Who exactly are the 'Al-Qaeda types'? Is there any concrete evidence for a link between the Al-Quaeda and Hussein?

Why is it the British government knows where every Televison is located. Why is that those vans prowl the streets looking for those with unregistered TV's. Why is it that the unelected Queen and the House of Lords can screw up public policy?

Why is it that the White House took bribes from Esso to deny the existance of global warming? Why is Menwith Hill located in the UK despite being run by the US and what is its functions? Yeah I'm anti-royalist, I don't agree with the ascribed status of the House of Lords, but then I don't agree (along with many others) with Guantanamo bay, the death penalty and crimes towards the eartb America have commited.

Why is it that most multinational firms invest heavily in the USA?
Bad, evil Americans!

Oh dear, well if you disagree with something the big companies do that makes you a commy... right?

It is apparent that there are those on this board who hate America and its foreign policy.

Um... people are making criticisms based on personal morals and beliefs, nowt wrong with criticism. And by making such a statement does that make you a patriot?

especially love those who protest against oil companies but never show up at rallies riding bicycles!

No, they usually show up on coaches as that saves with the pollution and it's often too far to walk or ride

Well Europeans can squeal all they want! We intend to do whatever is necessary to defend ourselves and we will not ask any countrys permission. Boycott American goods. Stop coming to visit America. We of course will recipricate. Pull all your investments out of the US. Go for it.

LOL Again, if you can't take criticism then close your ears. There are some very intelligent and valid points made on these boards, whether they support America or not.

Organize against the evil Americans. We look forward to your actions and we'll respond in kind.

Who said Americans are evil?

Enough of the rhetoric! Start the war against America now. Pull out all European money out of America. Why do business with those evil Americans? Evil immoral Americans!:wave: :wave:

*Chuckle* That's going a bit too far. can you say... paranoia? Yes America benefit the world economically, every country has played its part. But this thread ain't about glorifying America or any country, it's about war lies.

Attack as you will with the usual hatred for all that is American. We shall respond with bellyy laughs as we defeat murderers.

Define 'murder' and I will present you with figures on how many people were killed via 'friendly fire' and sanctions.

We do so in our own defense and we seek no approval from those who would do nothing to defend themselves. Rave on MacDuff, we do as we please and most frustratingly to most of Europe is that there is not thing one you can do about it!:p

What threat was Iraq to America and the Uk? No more of a threat than any other country. The war was illegal as Iraq didn't start the fight. It almost sounds as if you're confusing Bin laden with Hussein...

Anyway, how can you justify the use of clusterbombs and missiles in areas where civilians are?

Ohh surely it's not murder! :nervous: