Home Politics & Debate
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨

France and Islamic Head Dress

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
What are peoples' views on whether French government schools should ban the Islamic head dress for pupils (along with other symbols of ra eligious nature e.g. crucifix, skullcap)?

I am inclined to agree with most French people that foreigners should integrate into FRENCH society and NOT the other way around.

I'm sure I will be shot down in flames. :)

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's been discussed very recently here

    But no, I don't agree with the move. God knows I despise organised religions with passion, but such a move will create more problems than it will solve.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    surely school is about education ...not forever being a polititcal football. who the hell do people think they are dictating stuff like this? what will the people be stopped from doing next ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think this banning of religious wear is an insult to democracy. Chirac should be ashamed of himself.

    Keeping church and state seperate is important, but wearing a piece of cloth over your head doesnt threaten this vital of democracy.
    I am inclined to agree with most French people that foreigners should integrate into FRENCH society and NOT the other way around.

    True, but surely they can keep a part of their own culture and heritage as well?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    With such a move you're not integrating them, simply imposing forced assimilation upon them which is a method which can sometimes be as cruel and wrongly done as segregation...

    By doing this, you're setting peoples' defence insticts up, and they'll further themselves from the French community and keep strictly to their own.

    As Matadore said, enforcing this move is maybe democracy due to the majority who're for this move. But it also contradicts the whole aspect of the French revolution which they are so proud of...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    how many white westerners integrate themselves into the culture of the many different countries they have settled in?
    near zero i would imagine.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not true.
    My mom's friend is a diplomat and she got sent out to Saudia Arabia. She told about how there would be seperate days for the men and women to go to the zoo f.ex. and of course they'd follow those rules.

    Historically, white man hasn't always integrated. Today, most often than not we'll follow the countries rules.

    And hasn't my dad integrated into Danish culture? Yes, it's white from white, and easier than most, but still a very different mentality, yet he has represented Denmark at several occasions different places around the world.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'd imagine your mum's friend was very eager to adapt to Saudi rules and life, if only to avoid getting lashed to ribbons. ;)

    However this is not about integration. Note that visible large Christian symbols such as big crosses are also being banned. The head scarf wearers are not being targeted because they haven't integrated to French live. All religious signs- including those displayed by 'native' Christians- are being banned.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The burkha is seen as a symbol of religious culture and it is treated as religious, as is the wearing of the star of David or the crucifix.

    France, like Germany, does not have a state religion, and as uch it bans all religious symbols from its state classrooms- it stems from the revolution.

    Interesting that France is vilified for this, but that Turkey is not, though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit
    Interesting that France is vilified for this, but that Turkey is not, though.

    Because the thread isn't about Turkey?

    Or because we didn't know?

    I've heard that in some US schools children aren't allowed to wear pentacles. But then Harry Potter has been banned in some states too.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit
    The burkha is seen as a symbol of religious culture and it is treated as religious, as is the wearing of the star of David or the crucifix.
    Maybe I am a bit ignorant, but is it not more than a symbol? Girls are not encouraged to cover their hair to show their faith, but do it because they feel it is displeasing to Allah if they do not? It's not the same as wearing a large, ostentatious cross around your neck at all.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by piccolo
    Maybe I am a bit ignorant, but is it not more than a symbol? Girls are not encouraged to cover their hair to show their faith, but do it because they feel it is displeasing to Allah if they do not? It's not the same as wearing a large, ostentatious cross around your neck at all.

    You're right.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is a tricky subject. According to what I've read, there's nothing in the Koran demanding that women cover their heads, yet on this site, I'm told that it's not compulsory until after puberty, which implies compulsion thereafter. To the extent that their may be undue pressure on schoolgirls to wear the hijab, I think it's good that there's a law that might protect them, but I gather that it's already banned for adults in 'the workplace', which seems highly provocative...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Uncle Joe
    I think it's good that there's a law that might protect them, but I gather that it's already banned for adults in 'the workplace', which seems highly provocative...
    Potentially the law is a protection, but I imagine that girls who would be forced by their parents may be forced regardless - or even taken out of school, which would be awful.

    I wasn't aware of the law for adults - that raises an interesting point. Does anyone have the right to impose legal dress-codes on adults?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by piccolo
    I wasn't aware of the law for adults - that raises an interesting point. Does anyone have the right to impose legal dress-codes on adults?
    'Head scarves are already banned for people working in the public sector, but that rule -- not a law -- is occasionally broken. A Muslim employee of the city of Paris was recently suspended for refusing to take off her scarf or shake men's hands.'

    London Free Press

    So I guess it's not legal, per se...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: France and Islamic Head Dress
    Originally posted by Teagan
    What are peoples' views on whether French government schools should ban the Islamic head dress for pupils (along with other symbols of ra eligious nature e.g. crucifix, skullcap)?

    I am inclined to agree with most French people that foreigners should integrate into FRENCH society and NOT the other way around.

    I'm sure I will be shot down in flames. :)

    I think that Governments telling people what they can and cannot wear on their heads is rediculous (Except in the case of general safety) and when it's linked so directly to religion it's incredibly disrespectful.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Re: France and Islamic Head Dress
    Originally posted by byny
    I think that Governments telling people what they can and cannot wear on their heads is rediculous (Except in the case of general safety) and when it's linked so directly to religion it's incredibly disrespectful.

    Why is it ridiculous though? Religious symbols and religious doctrine has no place in the classroom, and just as the French law extends to wearing ostentatoious crucifixes or Stars of David it extends to wearing burkhas.

    The burkha is no more religious than a crucifix; yes, its more cultural, but its also cultural in many Islamic states to circumcise women. In my opinion the burkha exists to subjugate women, and if a tool is being used to oppress part of the population then the Government SHOULD get involved. Just like it should in the case of femal circumcision, or in forced marriages.

    Oh, and MoonRat, my point is that it isnt just France that has brought in this law- states such as Turkey, which are popularly seen as Islamic, have exactly the same regulations, making any insinuations of racism or bias fatuous.
Sign In or Register to comment.