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I wouldnt wipe my arse with the DPA 2000, its worthless. The list of exemptions- including that good old chestnut "public security"- means that basically the only information the people have the right to access is information that nobody wants or needs. Government information can onyl be disclosed on permission of the Cabinet, and maybe Im being a touch cynical, but I dont see the Cabinet releasing information on the ID Cards.
Oh, and godscop- its only the number that can be tracked, and then only to a distance of a few miles, as it is logged when the phone attempts to contact a transmittor. If you have an unregistered PAYG phone which you change frequently, as any self-respecting crim does, its very hard to trace.
That sort of information could just as easily be used for the wrong reasons as ID cards could.
Just an example of how things are already being monitored, it makes this fuss over compulsary ID cards a bit pointless as they are already doing it.
But thats to miss the point. Your mobile phone can be tracked to within probably about five miles, big deal. That isnt the point.
The point is about the invasion of privacy, the compulsion that there will be to give over all these details to the government, and for what? If Im worried about being tracked on my phone, I can simply turn my telephone off, or not have a telephone at all. But if IM forced to have an ID card, and could be fined for not carrying it, then where is my personal choice?
Its the principle of it all, I suppose. Though I would like to note the example of the man who had never had a driving license or a bank account or an NI number all his life.
We have a choice whether to have a driving licence, credit card, mobile phone etc. This ID card will be compulsory. Thats the difference.
I'd like to see anyone begin to try and forge a driver's licence. Sure you could make one that looks real, but I bet half of you don't have a clue about what security features it has, and if a criminal doesn't know about the security features then they can't forge them. Not that they'd be able to anyway.
An ID card would be the same, it would simplify things such as going to the bank, buying things, PROVING who you are.
For anyone who cares, there is an enormous amount of ID fraud at the moment, not from photo id's but because people are stealing bank cards and statements, that sort of thing. Every week we have someone come in complaining that someone at the other end of the country has connected them to a contract.
Whenever you try and obtain credit, in person you already need at least 2 types of SEPERATE id. Rolling it all into one card would make things a lot easier for the consumer and for the service industries.
Want another example? How easy do you think it is for an ambulance crew to identify the victim of an accident? Mr S R Smith on a bank card isn't very revealing, and makes the entire process of contacting next of kin long and inefficient.
No, it won't stop illegal immigration, but it will make the process of identifying people easier.
And even though you whine about civil liberties, the government already knows everything there is to know about you anyway, putting it all on a card which you keep in your pocket won't make a difference. I carry a photocard licence, it doesn't mean that "big brother" can suddenly appear and infringe on my civil liberties. What it does is make my life easier when I need something from the bank, or if I need to buy a car, or get credit. It means I don't have to goto the trouble of going home and returning with a recent bank statement.
Turning these cards into the new replacement for money would be the next step forward. And tbh, I really don't mind paying for one. Yes, my identity is sacred to me, which means I'm more than willing to carry a card if it prevents someone from STEALING it, which anyone who has recieved loads of bills for credit cards and other things will know about.
And I know it's a cliche, but only those with something to hide are scared about the whole thing. People like me, who don't want to goto a credit agency to find out I've apparently run up a string of debts in London are more than happy with the idea.
Doesn't matter if your phone is switched off, they can switch it on for you.
And it doesn't matter if it is unreigstered Pay and Go, they can track you to within a few feet, and if you topped up using a debit card then you're fucked.
But, the point is they don't keep the information. They only record it if asked to do so.
They keep records of calls in order to settle disputes with the customer. The number of times I've had people saying "£5 credit just vanished" only to ring the network for them to tell me "the customer made a call to a premium rate number at 01:00 which lasted approx 3 minutes" makes me laugh.
There are 2 rules inlife. You can't make a waiter come to you before he is ready, and you can't beat the phone company.
My concern is, if all the information is put into one place then the ID because VERY valuble, and because of that it would be a big target for fraudsters. And they would find a way of doing it, I mean pasports are supposed to be high secuity and you pick one of those up for a couple of hundred quid.
As once all the data is together comparisions would be much easier to make. What you buy could be compared to where you live, compared to GP records compared to benifits info.
So for example if you were buying lots of fatty food and then going to your doctor for treatment they could send you a letter telling you stop. Or maybe even refuse to pay for the treatment till you cut back. Just a thought.
It wouldn't, full stop.
What it would do is make it easier to identify who the illegal immigrants are making it easier to process and eport them i would imagine.
Given however that all legitimate asylum seekers will be given the cards free and the weight of processing invloved i am not sure it would be of any beneift to the govt in this matter.......
Forgers know what security features are on these cards, its in their interest to know. Forges passports look, feel, and are very authentic, so are photocard driving licenses.
As for only one form of photo ID- I have four things in my wallet with my mugshot on them.
Of course BIg Brother can suddenly infringe on your civil liberties- they already do it now through the wonderful Echelon network, I jsut dont want to make it any easier for them to do so. Its one thing doing it covertly, because doing it that way is inherently limited, but if they have statutory authority to snoop about on your ID card with your DNA and retinal scans on it, then it is not inherently limited.
Once the Government has the information it can use it however it likes. And to use the "if youre innocent youre safe" line is naive at the least- who exectly defines innocent? I havent got so much as a speeding ticket, but I AM critical of this Government, and will continue to be so. If the Government knows everything about me, it makes it so much easier to shut me up.
Im not being egotistical, because Im not critical enough to be a "threat", but just who decides if IM being a criminal by slagging off Blair? Its horrendously easy to change the law, and no-one would stop it because "if youre innocent youve got nothing to be afraid of". Its been done in places like Nazi Germany before, and it is a very real threat in somewhere like the UK. Theres nothing to sop it happening.
The police already know who the illegal immigrants are.
And given the threat of forgery I doubt that an ID card will make things any easier- in fact, it could well make it harder, as a IM who cannot speak English obviously isnt entitled to a GB passport, but an ID card would have no such obviousness.
Interesting bit of info in the above link.
Indeed, but it would make it easier for them to check up surely?
Just my opinion, anyway.
Duffy
you can get a forged anything and everything man!
retina sacans will be no problem to forge ...you take your retina scan ...you put it next to your picture and your false details and hey presto ...an id card. come on ...
by treating every man and woman in the country as a criminal ...they are going to take your finger prints ...do a retina scan ...possibly a dna sample. if you refuse to go along with being treated like a criminal you will be treated as a criminal by being dragged to court and fined or imprisoned! if you go along with it but then dare leave your house without it you will be commiting a criminal offence. so we can all be criminals together then ...or be treated as such. why is this ok?
if you come here on holiday from a country that doesn't issue these cards ...you get pulled by the old bill and what ...show them your forged passport?
Oh my fav topic of conversation.
There's a book by Simon Davies called Big Brother - Britains Web of Surveillance And The New Technological Order . Based loosely on some of George Orwells ideas in 1984. Read these two books and you might change your ideas about ID Cards.
The technology is there - not just in the cards but programs which can read your face of a video recording and match it to your collected data. As already noted with the phones, if you imagine this connected to CCTV - this provides certain agencies with 24 hour information about your whereabouts. And how do you know who is looking at that information - and what they might do with it - besides worrying about what the Government is going to do with it.
As for the fraud side of it that's crap. Within one month of them coming out criminals will be getting hold of them and learning everything they need to, to get an accurate fake produced. They ain't like the crim's in Home Alone - were talking serious - professional fraudsters. The kind of people that wait for old people to die then collect their mail the week after, or visit graves of dead children (born at a similar date) and take on their identities.
These are the people the government is trying to catch and the only people who will suffer are the ones who commit no crime. Once these cards hold all the info of you with someone else's face and biometric data on it you will/may cease to exist on paper.
Sorry Its a touching subject and I'll demonstrate if the ol Home sec. pushes them any further
No, im not a copper and im not gonna be for some time. Im joing the police but as a community support officer.
Yes, licences have holograms, but they also have a few more features. I'm sure they can be forged, but I can't see how.
All documents like that, even switch cards e.t.c. have UV markings on them. Not ordinary ones, but full detail colour pictures that show up under black lights.
I work for a phone company at the moment, and our fraud department have recieved information saying that as of yet criminals haven't found a way of forging the UV markings, which is why I said what I said.
My point kermit, isn't that the government our putting all this info on one card. They already have most of the information, I can't see how putting it all on a card that I keep in my pocket is going to make any difference to mine or anybody else's life. A police officer can still demand ID, and if necessary escort you to your house to get it. If you just show him a card it makes your life and his life easier.
Gets you into the whole mood of seeing why and how governments can control people and how technology can be used to chip away at our civil rights.
Don't get me wrong we need to have some tabs on people but we need to make sure our privacy isn't intruded upon too much.
This is more than science fiction this is science fact!
As Whowhere would maybe say “The stupid girl had something to hide if she was scared of the whole thing.”