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Compulsary I.D Cards
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
What do you think about these?
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And I can see the argument for introducing them in terms of ID for when you see the doctor, go to school, get your benefit etc.
My concern would be how they were used and how the information they could collect was then used.
It will help combat fraud and cut an enormous amount of red tape and bother in every aspect.
The card won't have a smart chip telling of our location or anything ffs! It will only have our name, age (so proof of age), address (so proof of address), and digital or optical printouts to enhance security.
What on earth is the problem with that???
I agree, and it will also help to solve the illegal imigrant problems.
The thing that annoys me is that we might have to pay for them ourselves. If everyone had one I suppose it would help track down illegal immigrants as a suspect could be challenged to produce one.
If a card can be created by a Government, it can be created fraudulently by a criminal member of the public. rather than acting as a deterrent to fraud, it will make it harder for honest people to get justice from fraud- a card that cannot be copied simply means that people who have their card copied wouldnt be listened to.
As for the security aspect, does anyone on here think it will suddenly stop illegal immigrants and terrorists? The police knew for thirty years who Martin McGuinness was, yet he still killed people as a member of the IRA; its the same story with people like Mad Dog Fraser. As for illegal immigrants, see point one.
The simple fact is that for everyday needs there is enough photographic ID already available, there doesnt need to be any more. I dont WANT the Government to have my retinal scan and my fingerprints, they are PERSONAL to me. And if the ID card doesnt have these on it, then whats the point of it? We already have photo Drivers Licences.
As for the cost, I REFUSE to pay for one of some stupid blind tossers little whims.
Al: Can't see how it will cut red tape, surely an extra layer?
Also potentially massive waste of police time. If the police ask you for your card and you haven't got it then they have to follow it up (else there would be no point) even if it is for an incredibly minor thing........
will help decrease fraud, illegal immigrants etc
id love one tbh
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Oh dear.
And how exactly will it cut down on fraud, illegal immigration etc? ID can be forged y'know.
Just as Im sure that the Poles who werent gay or Jewish were glad for the extra Lebensraum in 1940:)
there was no need to try and take the piss out of her was there ?
and you wonder why new posters dont come to this forum.
Its not the fact of the piss taking its more a confidence thing. Like she doesnt post here much and when she does and gets the piss taken then is she gonna come back and post again ? or will she be a bit wary of posting here again ?
This forum is a scary forum you know, well until you see the other side of some posters
OK, I'll try not to, but its hard when some people post such naive thoughts.
To argue that "those who have nothing to hide will welcome them" is to overlook the fact that history has demonstrated time again that the potential for abusive misuse of societal controls does in fact lead to the actuality of that misuse and abuse. Just look at the ever increasing atmosphere of paranoia that not only currently pervades the US but which is played upon for ever more centralised political controls.
Can any of us be confident that such compulsory cards might not one day (if not right away without public knowledge) contain far more private data than any democratic respecting individual would want authorities to have readily to hand?
Something far too akin to the "mark of the beast" for my taste frankly.
Ill explain why now.
The British political system exists solely on checks and balances- if it is not prohibited by law, then it is legal. The trouble with forcing ID cards on people is that any Government is obviously going to start low, and build itself up in terms of invasion of privacy. For now it may well be simply your name and a mugshot, all well and good, but once the ID cards are enshrined in law its not going to be very long before they are extended to fingerprints, retinal scans, DNA samples. Before very long the card, which started off so innocently, will be a tool of public control- its quite easy to quell dissenters if the state has all your biological measurements on a handy computer disk.
To ignore what a Government does is dangerous. Take the Prevention of Terrorism Act 2001- a supposedly emergency statute that was meant to be on the books for months, not years, and still theres no sign of it disappearing. Things done by Governments in times of "emergency" rarely ever leave the statute books, the 70mph speed limit was introduced as an "emergency meaure" during the 1971 oil crisis, and 32 years on its still with us.
Anyone who says that "if youre innocent you neednt be worried" is to miss the point. People should be distrustful of anything that the Government says is good, people should be distrustful of anything that the police say is good. Yes its true that if you are legal and honest then you wont have anything to fear, but who defines what is legal and honest? It wouldnt take very much for these cards, supposedly set up to defend the public, to be used against the public to quell dissenters and "trouble-makers". Anyone who trusts a Government needs to take a reality check, and very quickly indeed.
The basis upon which such ID cards operate is the establishment of a national databank collating information on each and every card bearer. As Kermy said (echoing my own prior comment about "ratcheting" actually
So, "Joe Citizen" who has fulfilled his obligatory duty to subscribe to the ID system finds himself required to make use of it (or his ID number at least) in otder to make purchases, rent videos, check out books from the local library, get connected to the internet, vote in general elections, etc...
With that, further personal choices (personal consumption habits, medical histories, reading/internet site preferences, voting records (especially troubling as electronic voting systems become the mainstream), etc.. are all tabulated and added to ones databank profile.
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see where such profiling could lead in time, given the right set of socio-political conditions in place (i.e a USA Patriot Act, a Dept. of Homeland Security, the right of the state to collect and use secret evidence against a citizen without judicial review and without their knowledge that it is even occurring until action is taken against against him/her for "preventitive security" reasons).
Once you accept the precursors of the Big Brother State, you allow for the establishment of institutionalised mechanisms which cannot subsequently be undone, or given the penchant of the particular government of the day, even legitimately investigated (for "national security" purposes of course).
All in all, such mechanisms should be publically condemened BEFORE they have a chance to establish a foothold.
For sake of continuing the discussion though, what do our posters think of a possible public response to this in terms of a a vast majority staging a publically televised ID card burning?
Don't be so quick to scoff.
Here is a series of articles that serve to highlight what both I and Kermy have suggested as the next step in how government information gathering could be applied (IS being applied in the US already actually)...
Watch Lists
I wouldnt really object to one, IF and only IF it was purely for ID, so name, DOB, address maybe passport number and a retina scan.
But then, surely the temptation would be to start putting more and more on it. Medical details, travel information, what you buy, benefit information etc etc.
Then it becomes something that is truely scary.
However, to be honest I'm more concerned about whats happening now than what might happen to these cards in 10 years time. We have internment here for gods sake! Its not long till that measure is brought forward to include UK nationals too.
My wife for example has indefinate leave to stay here, but isnt a UK national. This means if they wanted she could be held without trial for as long as they deem needed!
As for 'if you have not got anything to hide you shouldnt worry'. How about I follow you around 24 hours a day, videoing every movement you make, going through your rubbish, tapping your phone, looking at your medical details, scanning through everything you buy and where you travel.