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Beggers and drug addicts

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Ok... well this has come up in class a few times and people have been disgusted at my attitude about it...

I give money to people on the streets, reguardless of whether I think they're on drugs and I don't care if they are going to spend what I give them on drugs and alcohol... because once you're on the street it's so hard to get off them and I believe the drugs offer comfort....

However, people in my psychology class have said that if somebody is on drugs then they don't deserve help, but isn't that a little harsh? I mean one girl said "nobody forces you to shoot up on heroine" but then has she ever been on the streets? I mean you don't know what these people have been through and personally I hate the high and mighty attitude people have, thinking they're better than other people...

I mean people make mistakes, right?

What does everybody else think?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I would not feed anyones drug habit, if I give them money then I am feeding their habit.

    Id give them a fag, or food but not money.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You have my full support. Everyone deserves to be given the benefit of the doubt. Why should a few who abuse the little charity that they are given lead to others being refused any help at all?

    (Edited to add, addressed to MoonRat, Becky and I replied simultaneously)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't give money directly to people on the streets because I don't know if that money's going on drugs or whatever and that does nothing to solve the problem, only fuels it.

    I think it's better to give to charities who work with the homeless because that way it limits the option of buying drugs/alcohol but still allows them to get help.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the majority of homeless folk are not addicts or alkies.
    i give them money most times.
    if their comfort and warmth for the night is a shot of heroin or a bottle of cider then so be it. whatever gives them a feeling of safety and security and comfort is best known by them.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I seen a couple of programmes on T.V (documentaries so are true life) and was amazed at how much some beggars can make a day. So that makes me give money to charity rather than someone on the street.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dont always give money to beggars, but I dont have any problem with what they spend it on when I do. I prefer to give money to buskers or big issue sellers as at least theyre doing something for themselves.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    I would not feed anyones drug habit, if I give them money then I am feeding their habit.

    Id give them a fag, or food but not money.

    but fags are drugs...

    I agree with moonrat. I give money sometimes, but then I work in a drugs project so I recognise a lot of the local users and they me, so they tend not to ask.

    Who are we to make moralistic judgements about someone we don't even know.

    From a recent peice of work I've done on getting drug users to do research:

    "payment by non-cash methods (ie vouchers) may reflect negative stereotypes of IDUs [Injecting Drug Users] and places the researcher in a moralistic position, not affording participants the dignity and respect to make their own choices. Discrimination against IDUs is premised upon the perception that IDUs are irresponsible and not to be trusted. At the same time, researchers desire not to be complicit in the participant's drug use nor cause any harm. The potential harm associated with following ethical reimbursement practices is that the person may use cash payment from research to purchase drugs, and this may result in overdose or other drug-related harms. (Ritter et al. 2003).

    We believes that reimbursement for involvement in research is a non-discriminatory practice showing respect and justice."
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can certainly see the point that you dont really want to fund someones habit, but the question arises as to what else are they going to do to get the money for the heroin/rocks whatever. Its not like they are going to stop just because they dont get enough from begging is it.

    I normaly give a little to the local homeless people near me, mainly because I would want them to give me money if I was in their situation.

    I really dont like the way a lot of people can just ignore them as though they arent there at all.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    I really dont like the way a lot of people can just ignore them as though they arent there at all.

    but if you ignore them they disappear ... :rolleyes:

    it pisses me off too, the way people ignore them and worse, when drunken jerks decide to give one a good kicking on the way home for fun.

    those that do ask and to big issue sellers I say something like "no thanks, not today, sorry"

    its just impolite to ignore someone who's speaking to you
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whereas I would not fund someone's crack or heroin habit knowingly, I have no problem whatsoever with beggars spending my donation on booze, weed, E or LSD for that matter.

    Their drug/alcohol use is a result of their homelessness, and not the other way around.

    They have little or nothing going for them, and many will be tragically dead within 10 years of sleeping rough. I can't blame them for trying to escape reality when they have the chance. Hell, on occasion I have bought them a beer myself.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    One thing I don't understand, having not been in their position is what makes them want to shoot up with heroine? Comfort maybe?

    And I hate people who judge homeless addicts... I mean who knows what they've been through. Funny how a lot of the people who judge and who refuse to even give a homeless person the time of day are fairly comfortable in living themselves.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Their drug/alcohol use is a result of their homelessness, and not the other way around.

    Are you sure? I think you underestimate the cost and cause of a drug/alcohol addiction.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In most cases, yes. I hadn't included heroin or crack use because that's a different ball game.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I still believe in giving money to them, especially around Christmas time. How many people here know what it's like to be on the street? I sure as hell don't and I don't wish to know. I doubt 50p of my hard earned cash will be greatly missed, considering I earn around £60 a week.

    One thing that got me was in London at Christmas time, this geezer was all huddled up and it was freezing and there was about £4 in his hat... I mean how many people are in London and how many are earning enough to live in a big ass house with two cars and a nice holiday abroad every year? I recognise that people are struggling, like families on the dole are struggling to feed their kids and maybe that's ok if they don't give... but all these rich people... 50p would really kill them?

    Maybe it's culture, I don't know, but especially in the winter I believe that it's a time where people on the streets truelly do need our charity whether they're drug addicts or not.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I will sometimes give money to homeless people too. So what if they spend it on booze or drugs? Its not up to me to tell them what to do with their money. And if that drink or hit makes them feel better for a short while, then thats fair enough. It must be horrible to be clucking and living on the street.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the drug trade in the U.K is estimated to be worth around seven billion quid a year! the money raised through begging doesn't even register on money of this magnitude.
    most addicts are middle class and above in the social scale. most addicts wether it be heroin or whiskey ...work for a living or have wealthy family.
    how come the people at the bottom ALWAYS ...get the blame. the stigma. the grief?
    the well heeled don't only use most of the illegal drugs they also import them and sell them ...so if anyone wants to judge and lay blame ...think about it.
    the homeless aren't the ones who can afford to bring in ship loads of drugs and distribute them!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by rainbow brite
    I dont always give money to beggars, but I dont have any problem with what they spend it on when I do. I prefer to give money to buskers or big issue sellers as at least theyre doing something for themselves.

    :yes: I also ask them if they would like a hot drink, or if they would like me to buy them some food . If they don't accept it, it's a big "fuck you" to them because they would only spend it on somethine like whiskey or something. I too would rather donate to charities that get people off the street, especially when the weather gets bad.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by the doc horatio
    :yes: I also ask them if they would like a hot drink, or if they would like me to buy them some food . If they don't accept it, it's a big "fuck you" to them because they would only spend it on somethine like whiskey or something.

    I find that a very condescending and arrogant attitude actually. Who are you to decide what they need?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    I find that a very condescending and arrogant attitude actually. Who are you to decide what they need?
    pleeeease ....before anyone says it ... "but the last thing they need are drugs" ............ you ever been addicted to anything? you ever been very alone and without any poseesions in this world. without anyone who actualy cares or even listens? cold hungry and lost?
    well said blagsta!
    for all you christian minded folk ... jesus was slagged off something rotten by the religous leaders of the day for spending to much time with ...thieves, prostitutes and beggars! when he was asked why he spent all this time with such loosers ....his answer ...these were the people who ...NEEDED him.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    pleeeease ....before anyone says it ... "but the last thing they need are drugs" ............ you ever been addicted to anything? you ever been very alone and without any poseesions in this world. without anyone who actualy cares or even listens? cold hungry and lost?
    well said blagsta!
    for all you christian minded folk ... jesus was slagged off something rotten by the religous leaders of the day for spending to much time with ...thieves, prostitutes and beggars! when he was asked why he spent all this time with such loosers ....his answer ...these were the people who ...NEEDED him.
    and just to add ...he told these people they would have to mend their ways if they were to gain the keys to paradise ...very gentle compared with what he said to the religous people ...who he reffered to as hypcrites, liars, serpents and sons of satan!
    something to think about aye?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    90% of the beggars in are there because they were hooked on drugs. I'll be damned if I'm going to give them more money so they can carry on their habit. Most people in the city agree with me so the YMCA set up collection boxes where you can put your money.
    There are only 3 people in I'd give my money to, a guy who is in his 40's who sells the big issue, I've got him a coffee once or twice too. A really old guy who has been playing a xylophone for at least 20 years in the same 2 places and a black christian guy who plays the guitar until 4am.
    The rest are all permanatly spaced out, and were banned from the city centre when it turned out that they were also living off benefits and had houses. Bastards.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Whowhere
    The rest are all permanatly spaced out, and were banned from the city centre when it turned out that they were also living off benefits and had houses. Bastards.
    unfortunately there are those idle bastards making a killing as well. i know of a couple of guys in the bangor area of north wales who are ripping off the begging system in this way. and that is what they are doing ...ripping off a system of peoples kindness ...peoples guilt ...and making things very difficult for the genuinely incapable and/or desperate.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere -
    I find attitudes like yours quite morally reprehensible actually. Where is your evidence that most of them had houses? Yes, some beggars do, but they are usually struggling with a drug habit and quite likely mental health issues as well. The majority of people with drug habits tend to have histories of mental illness or child abuse or other similar trauma. These are people each with their own individual stories and to dismiss them all as "bastards" is arrogant, unfeeling and callous.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    Whowhere -
    I find attitudes like yours quite morally reprehensible actually. Where is your evidence that most of them had houses? Yes, some beggars do, but they are usually struggling with a drug habit and quite likely mental health issues as well. The majority of people with drug habits tend to have histories of mental illness or child abuse or other similar trauma. These are people each with their own individual stories and to dismiss them all as "bastards" is arrogant, unfeeling and callous.
    what worries me is ...whowhere is about to become a copper with big boots on ...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hmmmm...nice.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    Hmmmm...nice.
    is it a case of don't try and get your head down in a descreet corner on whowheres beat for fear of ...
    whowhere ...are you actualy showing a certain mentality that goes with ...well goes with being a copper?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    pleeeease ....before anyone says it ... "but the last thing they need are drugs" ............ you ever been addicted to anything? you ever been very alone and without any poseesions in this world. without anyone who actualy cares or even listens? cold hungry and lost?
    well said blagsta!
    for all you christian minded folk ... jesus was slagged off something rotten by the religous leaders of the day for spending to much time with ...thieves, prostitutes and beggars! when he was asked why he spent all this time with such loosers ....his answer ...these were the people who ...NEEDED him.

    I just think it's sad that most of these 'Christians' don't even take in to account what jesus did and decide they'll fanny about and judge and preach like they're god or something.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    In most cases, yes. I hadn't included heroin or crack use because that's a different ball game.

    I still disagree.

    Alcoholism has a huge cost, not just financially. Whilst it isn't unusual for someone who is homeless to develp an alcohol problem as an escape, it's also fairly normal for an alcoholic to lose their home as a result of their addiction.

    Ditto drugs.

    Yes, it depends on the level of addiction, but being forced from your home by family - or because you don't pay the bills - isn't an abnormal situation with addiction.

    To suggest that addiction has little or no role in people becoming homeless is dangerous and leads to a lack of support for people before they find themselves in such dire straits.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I would say that alcoholism and alcohol abuse causes far more social and financial damage than drug addiction.
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    JadedJaded Posts: 2,682 Boards Guru
    Originally posted by the doc horatio
    :yes: I also ask them if they would like a hot drink, or if they would like me to buy them some food . If they don't accept it, it's a big "fuck you" to them because they would only spend it on somethine like whiskey or something. I too would rather donate to charities that get people off the street, especially when the weather gets bad.

    Exactly, its really disillusioning........ My partner has had a sandwich thrown at him when he bought one for a man asking for 'money for a sandwich'. But then he has bought a coffee and had a cigarette and a chat with other people before too, so not everyone is scamming for substance money......
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