Thoughts on 'dress codes'?

AislingDM

Now, I know this is classic debate that they make you do at school: "should we have a school uniform, yes or no?"...

It made me think about dress codes more generally, whether that is at school, university, the workplace etc...

Lots of places have expectations about how we should dress (which is certainly not limited to clothes, but includes tattoos, piercings and hair as well) and I was wondering what you all thought about this?

Do you think people have the right to expect us to dress in a certain way?

Is it a good thing? Are there any downsides?

Former Member

I can understand why dress codes exist but only to some extent. Like obviously it isn't gonna be appropriate to rock up to an office workplace in a bikini or something lol but being able to express yourself can be really important. In my opinion not being able to dye your hair just because the manager of the company thinks it's 'unprofessional' is so stupid. Things like getting piercings, tattoos and stuff is all personal choice. I get why they wouldn't want someone whose entire face is filled with tattoos working for them but let's be realistic, how many people have a genuine entire face full of tattoos?? But I just think it's a bit dumb. JUst because someone dresses a certain way, it doesn't mean they're any less professional, smart, intellectual, valuable, etc. What do u think @AislingDM ?

Amy22

I think the whole system for hair dye and tattoos is very outdated personally. To be honest, all of those things represent self expression and a person's story (tattoos often resemble a person's story or their interests) simply by stripping these away, we take away identity and self expression. We live in a world of free speech so really we should be allowed to express ourselves the way we would like to. Obviously in certain work places and jobs they are dress codes for particular reasons, for instance doctors wear scrubs so their clothes don't get messy and it prevents them from catching or spreading harmful bacteria.

I think everyone should be able to wear what they want even it if it meant that the clothes they were wearing meant that they were comfortable. I think it is better for people to feel comfortable rather than feel trapped wearing the same as everyone else. I feel this way for the school system however I am aware that with non - uniform, it could pose the issue of people comparing each other clothing which shoulden't really happen. I find that a lot of schools aim to strip their student's of unique personality simply by making them wear the same as everyone else. It tends to happen a lot more to girls and women specifically in the US. I recently found out that in most American school systems, girls are more likely to be 'dress-coded' than boys just because they wanted to wear something they liked. I also found out that apparently some schools think that the boys will be distracted by 'certain' types of clothing even though they should be taught not to be distracted by what a girl is wearing. I don't know I just feel like the dress code system may be a little outdated ish.

Amy22

I think it is why my sixth form eventually decided to make sixth formers not have to wear uniform because a lot of students felt uncomfortable with the uniforms we had to wear and there were less students going into sixth form. That was a few years ago now so I don't know if they have gone back to wearing the uniform or have carried on with non-uniform for sixth formers only.

ebyrne556

Great idea for a post @AislingDM and @Amy22 i agree with a lot of the rules in lots of secondary schools being extremly outdated.To be honest in some case id argue that you were allowed more freedoms and opportuniteis to express your individuality in primary lol I think it does help with rough guidelines on what to wear and may take the pressure/stress off others however i feel like opportunities to express indivuality cant really happen as easily. In term of hair colour,nail polish etc i feel like some schools r very strict on that. Over here it seems that the uniform regulations for 6th year are acutally stricter. as ‘you have more responsibility’ and ‘ are supposed to be rolemodels for the younger years’ ,prefects etc etc however i think yes we dont have more repsonbility but we are practically adults so should we not have more choice and freedoms as such? Schools are supposed to prepare us for adulthood espeically in 6th year but noone puts those strict rules in place when your a adult? Idk if any of this makes sense haha my brains not quite awake yet.

Azziman

Personally, I really like dress codes. It's really helpful to know what is appropriate to wear in particular situations (e.g. black-tie events, workplaces). It also saves a lot of time figuring out what to wear, as it narrows down options a lot! Where it's applied, it often has a good reason - for example, a workplace will implement a business attire because it represents the company's image, which is especially important if you're meeting with clients. Another example is at funerals, where the dress code is to wear black/dark clothing as a sign of respect for the deceased. Outside the situation, of course you can wear what you like, but in those particular environments, I think it's entirely appropriate to have a dress code.

I quite liked school uniforms too - wearing a common outfit made me feel more included in the school and with my peers. Also, a big factor in school bullying is where people are targeted based on what they wear (often those who had less money and so wore older clothes, hand-me-downs, or just not keeping up with the latest trends). Removing that factor meant that bullying was less common, and it's been a consistent story with all other people I've met who went to schools with uniforms.

AislingDM

I think you make such insightful points here @Xee ! Of course, there are times where reasonable accommodations for dress codes make sense (we wouldn't want people turning up everyone in the nude!!). Nevertheless, a lot of current dress codes seem to lend themselves back to a time where people could not express themselves as freely. I'm a huge believer that unless it impacts the quality of your work for a specific reason, there should be no qualms about piercings, tattoos, hair dye and a lot of clothing choices. For example, at food places, piercings or fake nails may not be allowed due to contamination concerns, I suppose?

Couldn't agree more @Amy22 ! You make a very relevant point about the importance of certain outfits, not only for contamination and such but also to signify your role and identity to the general public. For example, if you rush into a hospital or you have an important question to ask, it's useful to be able to quickly ascertain who the nurses and doctors are, right? Well, exactly Amy! You're so right, I think it is very evident that girls appear to be dress-coded more than boys, especially in places where uniforms are not required. Nevertheless, even at my school where we did have uniforms, the girls who were curvier were often directly told off more than others for their shirts and their skirt lengths. This felt very unfair altogether. Plus, you're so right, our bodies should never be described as a 'distraction', it feels pretty dehumanising and objectifying really, and a little bit creepy when you could get dress coded by grown adult teachers... I'm hoping there will be more sensitivity in the coming years to dress code approaches. Fortunately, my school recently began allowing the girls to wear trousers not only skirts haha x

Certainly so true @ebyrne556 , allowing young people to express themselves, so long as it is safe and (hopefully) does not negatively impact them, should be the basic norm for all schools and parents really. This is why I love parents who encourage their children to be a part of the clothes-buying process at the shops! Plus, things like nail varnish are likely not to affect anyone negatively. Really, the only argument I can see making a bit of sense is the point about 1) kids judging each other's clothes 2) wearing makeup and the complex feelings that can come with this for young people. Equally, I suppose there is a point to be made about getting comfortable with wearing 'smart clothes' in 6th form to get prepared for future careers etc... Nevertheless, the burden of acting like a role model can be pretty exhausting, especially if all you are trying to do is bring a bit of creativity to your outfits/general style.

See, this point makes sense too, especially with regards to being respectful of others and minimising the mental effort required to select an outfit from a range of options. Like, if you know you can only go to work in a suit, then you have to choose between your three suits, rather than every item of clothing in your wardrobe. Plus, with things like weddings as well, lots of people expect the guests not to wear white, so maybe this is an example of a less 'everyday' dress code @Azziman ? Equally, it makes me consider how important image is and what 'sophisticated' or 'neat' dress looks like these days. For example, I see a lot of TikToks nowadays about teachers seeming to have more freedom with their style and it makes me happy to know the kids will grow up seeing people who look different And totally agree! That always seemed to be the final point in the school uniform debate that no one could counter.. we want every student to feel as comfortable as possible at school. xx

An additional point that I wanted to mention is that often students of certain races are also disproportionately affected by dress code policies, and especially hair 'codes'. For example, many Black students at my school got in trouble regularly for having certain styles of braids. Additionally, at the local boys schools, boys were frequently put in isolation and even excluded for having longer hair or having certain styles the schools had banned (e.g., twists). This type of discrimination was very normalised, and definitely shows the awful impact that dress codes can have upon young kids

Former Member

An additional point that I wanted to mention is that often students of certain races are also disproportionately affected by dress code policies, and especially hair 'codes'. For example, many Black students at my school got in trouble regularly for having certain styles of braids. Additionally, at the local boys schools, boys were frequently put in isolation and even excluded for having longer hair or having certain styles the schools had banned (e.g., twists). This type of discrimination was very normalised, and definitely shows the awful impact that dress codes can have upon young kids

Damn @AislingDM that's so shitty. I know some schools can be really strict but that's just stupid, I really don't understand the point of that at all. I guess maybe the thing about boys having longer hair could've been because they want their students to seem more 'professional' and tidy but I feel like everyone expresses themselves more freely these days so having your hair out or long really shouldn't make a difference at all.

Amy22

AislingDM wrote: »

I think you make such insightful points here @Xee ! Of course, there are times where reasonable accommodations for dress codes make sense (we wouldn't want people turning up everyone in the nude!!). Nevertheless, a lot of current dress codes seem to lend themselves back to a time where people could not express themselves as freely. I'm a huge believer that unless it impacts the quality of your work for a specific reason, there should be no qualms about piercings, tattoos, hair dye and a lot of clothing choices. For example, at food places, piercings or fake nails may not be allowed due to contamination concerns, I suppose?

Couldn't agree more @Amy22 ! You make a very relevant point about the importance of certain outfits, not only for contamination and such but also to signify your role and identity to the general public. For example, if you rush into a hospital or you have an important question to ask, it's useful to be able to quickly ascertain who the nurses and doctors are, right? Well, exactly Amy! You're so right, I think it is very evident that girls appear to be dress-coded more than boys, especially in places where uniforms are not required. Nevertheless, even at my school where we did have uniforms, the girls who were curvier were often directly told off more than others for their shirts and their skirt lengths. This felt very unfair altogether. Plus, you're so right, our bodies should never be described as a 'distraction', it feels pretty dehumanising and objectifying really, and a little bit creepy when you could get dress coded by grown adult teachers... I'm hoping there will be more sensitivity in the coming years to dress code approaches. Fortunately, my school recently began allowing the girls to wear trousers not only skirts haha x

Certainly so true @ebyrne556 , allowing young people to express themselves, so long as it is safe and (hopefully) does not negatively impact them, should be the basic norm for all schools and parents really. This is why I love parents who encourage their children to be a part of the clothes-buying process at the shops! Plus, things like nail varnish are likely not to affect anyone negatively. Really, the only argument I can see making a bit of sense is the point about 1) kids judging each other's clothes 2) wearing makeup and the complex feelings that can come with this for young people. Equally, I suppose there is a point to be made about getting comfortable with wearing 'smart clothes' in 6th form to get prepared for future careers etc... Nevertheless, the burden of acting like a role model can be pretty exhausting, especially if all you are trying to do is bring a bit of creativity to your outfits/general style.

See, this point makes sense too, especially with regards to being respectful of others and minimising the mental effort required to select an outfit from a range of options. Like, if you know you can only go to work in a suit, then you have to choose between your three suits, rather than every item of clothing in your wardrobe. Plus, with things like weddings as well, lots of people expect the guests not to wear white, so maybe this is an example of a less 'everyday' dress code @Azziman ? Equally, it makes me consider how important image is and what 'sophisticated' or 'neat' dress looks like these days. For example, I see a lot of TikToks nowadays about teachers seeming to have more freedom with their style and it makes me happy to know the kids will grow up seeing people who look different And totally agree! That always seemed to be the final point in the school uniform debate that no one could counter.. we want every student to feel as comfortable as possible at school. xx

An additional point that I wanted to mention is that often students of certain races are also disproportionately affected by dress code policies, and especially hair 'codes'. For example, many Black students at my school got in trouble regularly for having certain styles of braids. Additionally, at the local boys schools, boys were frequently put in isolation and even excluded for having longer hair or having certain styles the schools had banned (e.g., twists). This type of discrimination was very normalised, and definitely shows the awful impact that dress codes can have upon young kids

I got to agree that it is mostly females who are more likely to get dress-coded especially members from ethnic backgrounds or religions which is sad to think about sometimes. I'd say it's worse for black students as they often get discriminated against for wearing braids or certain hairstyles that are important because of their hair types.

Another thing I wanted to mention was that in my secondary school, looking back we had to have what were called 'uniform checks' where we would all line up at the back of the school, and the teachers would check our uniforms and even bags sometimes which was a little bit creepy. Apparently, our head wanted to make sure that we were 'properly dressed' but I think there was something more going on really especially with the fact that we had to have the teachers searching us. It was worse during fire alarms too as once me and my friends had to get our bags searched because of an incident with deodrant sprays. I hated having to open my bag because of personal stuff I had in there too sometimes that I didn't want other students to know about even teachers.

AislingDM

Completely agree @Amy22 , sadly we see people's discrimination influencing their every move and for teachers this will include how they treat their students for their outfits and hairstyles, which is simply wrong. It's especially true that some teachers do not know (or want to know) about why their students may dress or wear their hair in a certain way and this active ignorance completely impacts children's and young people's education and general enjoyment at school

1000% we had a similar thing in younger years (which makes it feel extra creepy) they were especially keen on 'checking' skirt length and somehow it always happened to be this one specific teacher who was a man

I think you make such a critical point here about how children and young people should be entitled to privacy and respect when it comes to personal belongings and their bodies. I remember being embarrassed about having period products in my bag (ofc that's not embarrassing at all to anyone reading this, I was just a nervous 14-year old) and the idea of teachers being able to invade your personal space and look through your life in that way feels fundamentally wrong. Especially because, if bag searches are absolutely essential (e.g., life-threatening situation) then there is a way to do this with care and empathy for the young people involved. I'm sorry that experience with school was so awful, certainly you deserved better than this

AislingDM

Well that's exactly it @Xee , I think it opens up a wider conversation about what do 'professional' and 'tidy' actually mean? Are we saying any hairstyles other than short straight hair on boys are unacceptable? In which case these schools are definitely hindering the children's sense of style, journey of self-discovery and general happiness in the school. It's rather sad, I reckon and there should really be some type of middle ground with dress codes where kids are able to not be made fun of by others but also so that they can be themselves and express their identity, culture and religion, right? xxx

Former Member

Personally, the dress code doesn't really matter, but reading the other guys' posts, I support the opinion they have.

Dress code IS important, so people feel that they are included, like @Azziman said. But what concerns me is that it goes to the point where people don't have a say about what to wear and I f***ing hate that. Another problem is that the clothes might be outdated, uncomfortable, fragile, or worse. My idea of a dress code is one that fits the certain scenario, and at the same time is comfortable to the person wearing the dress code.

@AislingDM what do you think?