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[NEW] The points system

2

Comments

  • AidanAidan Clever idiot Posts: 1,225 Fanatical Poster
    edited August 3
    I know it's important to use the trial to get things right, so do you guys @The Mix have anything in particular you want feedback on?

    On top of that, seeing as testing the points system relies on people breaking the guidelines and receiving points- are there gonna be enough people breaking the guidelines in that period for you to be able to test the system comprehensively? I just think it'd be fun to go in a test chat or a test thread and misbehave haha
    Kathleen07
  • Kathleen07Kathleen07 Future musician Posts: 1,540 Postholic
    I just thought of something else that I wanted to bring up. Discussing suicidal plans is rated at 5-9 points. I feel like someone reaching out for help when they're horribly hurting shouldn't be rated at intermediate-seriousness.

    The guidelines are tough really, I guess... It must be hard because you want to make sure everyone feels comfortable and that there's not triggering information, but at the same time, people will be struggling and fragile so you need to be caring and sensitive.

    Sorry again if I seem rude or bossy at all, I'm just concerned about people's feelings and how various things could affect them. The points system seems helpful, but it could already make someone feel bad for having a post edited, and I don't want anyone to feel accused with the points (I'm sure you don't either haha) :smile:
     
    If it helps at all, this is an example of how I might phrase the message if I was trying to be sensitive about it:

    "Hey (name),

    Just wanted to drop by to say we made an edit to a recent post of yours to remove this line *insert part that was removed*.

    That's because we have a guideline to not describe methods of self-harm, as it could sometimes be triggering :smile:      

    *insert amount of points* (But don't worry, we really don't want you to feel bad or accused - this is just a way of keeping track of how many times a member goes against the guidelines. You can read more on this over here if you want to).

    I'm sorry you're struggling so much, and if you have any questions on using the boards we're more than happy to help :heart:

    Take care,
    (mod's name) and the team"

    And not something like this that sounds less kind and more blunt and like the person did something wrong.

    "Hey (name),


    Just wanted to drop by to say we edited a recent post of yours to remove this line *insert part that was removed*


    That's because we have a guideline to not describe methods of self-harm, as that's triggering.


    *insert amount of points* (But don't worry too much about what you said).


    Let us know if you have any questions.


    Take care,

    (mod's name) and the team"

    When life leaves us blind, love keeps us kind - Linkin Park

    Sing it for the boys, sing it for the girls, everytime that you lose it sing it for the world - MCR
    Maddie05
  • ShaunieShaunie England 🏠Posts: 5,781 The Mix Elder
    Where does it say actual point numbers ? 
    I've learnt two people can look at the exact same thing and see something completly different. 
    Maddie05
  • Kathleen07Kathleen07 Future musician Posts: 1,540 Postholic
    @Shaunie said:
    Where does it say actual point numbers ? 
    Over here https://community.themix.org.uk/discussion/3594926/points-warnings-and-breaks#latest, under "what are points given for?" :blush:


    When life leaves us blind, love keeps us kind - Linkin Park

    Sing it for the boys, sing it for the girls, everytime that you lose it sing it for the world - MCR
    ShaunieThe MixMaddie05
  • ShaunieShaunie England 🏠Posts: 5,781 The Mix Elder
    Oh thank you! Didnt look at the first spolier ah
    I've learnt two people can look at the exact same thing and see something completly different. 
    Kathleen07Maddie05
  • ShaunieShaunie England 🏠Posts: 5,781 The Mix Elder
    edited August 5
    I didn't know it was an actual rule to not speak about breaks. I just thought it was best avoided - not a rule :///. Why are these rules not in the actual rules?  Or do you mean saying someone else is on a break and saying reason or?

    and also I read on a different thread that keep a close eye on the member after a break. So does that mean the points start from 0 or not after a break ?

    also personally think some things in the lower part should not Be in the same part. How is talking about self harm detail the same points as talking about a break? Or does it mean from 0-4 inbetween depending on that thing or?
    I've learnt two people can look at the exact same thing and see something completly different. 
  • dogmad20dogmad20 Posts: 125 Extreme Poster
    Is the points system already in place @The Mix
  • dogmad20dogmad20 Posts: 125 Extreme Poster
    How many points do I have?
  • The MixThe Mix Posts: 2,414 Community Managers
    Aidan said:
    I know it's important to use the trial to get things right, so do you guys @The Mix have anything in particular you want feedback on?

    On top of that, seeing as testing the points system relies on people breaking the guidelines and receiving points- are there gonna be enough people breaking the guidelines in that period for you to be able to test the system comprehensively? I just think it'd be fun to go in a test chat or a test thread and misbehave haha

    Not particularly @Aidan - general feedback is useful. :)

    We actually formed the points structure as it currently stands using past situations and examples where someone has broken those guidelines, and how much of that was allowed to happen before a break.

    It might help to think of it this way: we've mapped the decision-making we had previously onto this system. So the way we decide these things hasn't actually changed, we're just making that measurable and standardised so we can all be clearer on those processes.

    We'll keep this trial period going for as long as we need to to be sure of everything and, even after that point, we'll still be open to tweaking things. Nothing is set in stone.

    Kathryn said:
    I just thought of something else that I wanted to bring up. Discussing suicidal plans is rated at 5-9 points. I feel like someone reaching out for help when they're horribly hurting shouldn't be rated at intermediate-seriousness.

    The guidelines are tough really, I guess... It must be hard because you want to make sure everyone feels comfortable and that there's not triggering information, but at the same time, people will be struggling and fragile so you need to be caring and sensitive.

    Sorry again if I seem rude or bossy at all, I'm just concerned about people's feelings and how various things could affect them. The points system seems helpful, but it could already make someone feel bad for having a post edited, and I don't want anyone to feel accused with the points (I'm sure you don't either haha) :smile:
     
    If it helps at all, this is an example of how I might phrase the message if I was trying to be sensitive about it:

    "Hey (name),

    Just wanted to drop by to say we made an edit to a recent post of yours to remove this line *insert part that was removed*.

    That's because we have a guideline to not describe methods of self-harm, as it could sometimes be triggering :smile:      

    *insert amount of points* (But don't worry, we really don't want you to feel bad or accused - this is just a way of keeping track of how many times a member goes against the guidelines. You can read more on this over here if you want to).

    I'm sorry you're struggling so much, and if you have any questions on using the boards we're more than happy to help :heart:

    Take care,
    (mod's name) and the team"

    And not something like this that sounds less kind and more blunt and like the person did something wrong.

    "Hey (name),


    Just wanted to drop by to say we edited a recent post of yours to remove this line *insert part that was removed*


    That's because we have a guideline to not describe methods of self-harm, as that's triggering.


    *insert amount of points* (But don't worry too much about what you said).


    Let us know if you have any questions.


    Take care,

    (mod's name) and the team"


    Really glad to see you're as determined to get this right as we are @Kathryn. :)

    We are very aware that the nature of receiving points, or having a consequence for an action, has the potential to worry people or make them feel like their card is marked. And in all honesty there is some upside to this - knowing that things have consequences is what helps people to act within boundaries and learn what's okay and not okay.

    But we definitely don't want anyone to feel punished for making a human mistake, or for misinterpreting a guideline. We might add a bit more to the main Start Here post around this, but we're not going to be concerned about anyone until they go past roughly 10 active points, because that's a sign that something is more of a persistent issue that we might need to do address.

    We will do everything we can to make sure folks don't feel put-out or judged for getting points. We're still working out the kinks in how we communicate this with people (thank you for the example!), but rest assured that being sensitive and kind is at the top of our priority list, just as it was before this announcement. :)

    About suicidal plans: we are very sensitive to the fact that discussing those is part of someone asking for support, and most of the time we won't give the higher end of points for that. But this is something that, if persistent, becomes a fairly serious problem for the community and something we need to address. At 5 points, someone would need to do that 6 times before a break, and we feel that's a pretty fair baseline.

    Shaunie said:
    I didn't know it was an actual rule to not speak about breaks. I just thought it was best avoided - not a rule :///. Why are these rules not in the actual rules?  Or do you mean saying someone else is on a break and saying reason or?

    and also I read on a different thread that keep a close eye on the member after a break. So does that mean the points start from 0 or not after a break ?

    also personally think some things in the lower part should not Be in the same part. How is talking about self harm detail the same points as talking about a break? Or does it mean from 0-4 inbetween depending on that thing or?

    So, the brackets are just a guide and some things in that bracket might be likely to result in less or more points depending on what they are, and the severity of what happens. Would you put either of those things in different brackets @Shaunie?

    Not discussing breaks is a rule, but you're right that we need to add this to the guidelines - that's good feedback. We've just edited the post to include it in the main rules. :) Hopefully this explains it:

    Discussing breaks, bans, or community members who may be on them is not permitted. This is to respect everyone's confidentiality around these issues, avoid comparisons, and to make sure these conversations don't derail any support happening in the same space.

    Points will typically start at zero after a break, yep. We're keen to give people their chances once they've had some time away, but we'll likely have a bit more contact with them if we notice old behaviours causing similar problems when they come back.

    dogmad20 said:
    Is the points system already in place @The Mix

    It is @dogmad20, yep. Most folks started at zero when this announcement was made, unless we've recently had conversations with them about breaks. Feel free to PM us about any questions you have regarding yours. :)

    Mike & the team
    We're @Aife@Mike, @Italia and @Ed_ - the staff team here at The Mix. We don't provide support via this account, but if you have any questions about the boards or need a hand finding your way around, feel free to drop us a message. Alternatively, you can head over to the Help Desk.
    Kathleen07Maddie05
  • ShaunieShaunie England 🏠Posts: 5,781 The Mix Elder
    edited August 9
    "Would you put either of those things in different brackets"

    Yes I think these should be more than 4 tbh 
    "Posting details of harmful substance quantities (possible exceptions at moderator discretion)
    Mentioning methods of self-harm
    Discussing details of disordered eating"
    and should expire after 2 months but that's just my opinion. 


    I've learnt two people can look at the exact same thing and see something completly different. 
    The MixMaddie05
  • Kathleen07Kathleen07 Future musician Posts: 1,540 Postholic
    @The Mix said:

    Kathryn said:
    I just thought of something else that I wanted to bring up. Discussing suicidal plans is rated at 5-9 points. I feel like someone reaching out for help when they're horribly hurting shouldn't be rated at intermediate-seriousness.

    The guidelines are tough really, I guess... It must be hard because you want to make sure everyone feels comfortable and that there's not triggering information, but at the same time, people will be struggling and fragile so you need to be caring and sensitive.

    Sorry again if I seem rude or bossy at all, I'm just concerned about people's feelings and how various things could affect them. The points system seems helpful, but it could already make someone feel bad for having a post edited, and I don't want anyone to feel accused with the points (I'm sure you don't either haha) :smile:
     
    If it helps at all, this is an example of how I might phrase the message if I was trying to be sensitive about it:

    "Hey (name),

    Just wanted to drop by to say we made an edit to a recent post of yours to remove this line *insert part that was removed*.

    That's because we have a guideline to not describe methods of self-harm, as it could sometimes be triggering :smile:      

    *insert amount of points* (But don't worry, we really don't want you to feel bad or accused - this is just a way of keeping track of how many times a member goes against the guidelines. You can read more on this over here if you want to).

    I'm sorry you're struggling so much, and if you have any questions on using the boards we're more than happy to help :heart:

    Take care,
    (mod's name) and the team"

    And not something like this that sounds less kind and more blunt and like the person did something wrong.

    "Hey (name),


    Just wanted to drop by to say we edited a recent post of yours to remove this line *insert part that was removed*


    That's because we have a guideline to not describe methods of self-harm, as that's triggering.


    *insert amount of points* (But don't worry too much about what you said).


    Let us know if you have any questions.


    Take care,

    (mod's name) and the team"


    Really glad to see you're as determined to get this right as we are @Kathryn. :)

    We are very aware that the nature of receiving points, or having a consequence for an action, has the potential to worry people or make them feel like their card is marked. And in all honesty there is some upside to this - knowing that things have consequences is what helps people to act within boundaries and learn what's okay and not okay.

    But we definitely don't want anyone to feel punished for making a human mistake, or for misinterpreting a guideline. We might add a bit more to the main Start Here post around this, but we're not going to be concerned about anyone until they go past roughly 10 active points, because that's a sign that something is more of a persistent issue that we might need to do address.

    We will do everything we can to make sure folks don't feel put-out or judged for getting points. We're still working out the kinks in how we communicate this with people (thank you for the example!), but rest assured that being sensitive and kind is at the top of our priority list, just as it was before this announcement. :)

    About suicidal plans: we are very sensitive to the fact that discussing those is part of someone asking for support, and most of the time we won't give the higher end of points for that. But this is something that, if persistent, becomes a fairly serious problem for the community and something we need to address. At 5 points, someone would need to do that 6 times before a break, and we feel that's a pretty fair baseline.
    Oh, okay haha. I see where you're coming from with the points now - rather than how much you're judging them, it's about how to tell when they have to have a break for it. I understand that.

    I know that it's good to know your actions have consequences :blush: My worry is just that when someone doesn't mean to break the guidelines, they shouldn't feel like there's consequences. It's sort of like if someone keeps purposefully stealing from a shop, then they should know it has consequences, but if they accidentally stole or did it because they were desperate, they shouldn't feel like they've done something wrong. You said that yourself really - "we definitely don't want anyone to feel punished for making a human mistake".

    I think I'm getting my own feelings mixed in this, as much as I'm trying not to. Like I said earlier (and like everyone's probably gathered by now :sweat_smile:) I have really low self esteem and stuff. I probably wouldn't be bringing all of this up if it weren't for the fact that there's probably people on here who are going through similar things to me.

    Thank you so much for being kind, I'm sure you'll do a good job with this :heart:

    When life leaves us blind, love keeps us kind - Linkin Park

    Sing it for the boys, sing it for the girls, everytime that you lose it sing it for the world - MCR
    The MixMaddie05
  • The MixThe Mix Posts: 2,414 Community Managers
    Shaunie said:
    "Would you put either of those things in different brackets"

    Yes I think these should be more than 4 tbh 
    "Posting details of harmful substance quantities (possible exceptions at moderator discretion)
    Mentioning methods of self-harm
    Discussing details of disordered eating"
    and should expire after 2 months but that's just my opinion.

    Thanks for the feedback @Shaunie. We'll take this on board and see how we go. :) 

    Kathryn said:
    @The Mix said:
    Kathryn said:
    I just thought of something else that I wanted to bring up. Discussing suicidal plans is rated at 5-9 points. I feel like someone reaching out for help when they're horribly hurting shouldn't be rated at intermediate-seriousness.

    The guidelines are tough really, I guess... It must be hard because you want to make sure everyone feels comfortable and that there's not triggering information, but at the same time, people will be struggling and fragile so you need to be caring and sensitive.

    Sorry again if I seem rude or bossy at all, I'm just concerned about people's feelings and how various things could affect them. The points system seems helpful, but it could already make someone feel bad for having a post edited, and I don't want anyone to feel accused with the points (I'm sure you don't either haha) :smile:
     
    If it helps at all, this is an example of how I might phrase the message if I was trying to be sensitive about it:

    "Hey (name),

    Just wanted to drop by to say we made an edit to a recent post of yours to remove this line *insert part that was removed*.

    That's because we have a guideline to not describe methods of self-harm, as it could sometimes be triggering :smile:      

    *insert amount of points* (But don't worry, we really don't want you to feel bad or accused - this is just a way of keeping track of how many times a member goes against the guidelines. You can read more on this over here if you want to).

    I'm sorry you're struggling so much, and if you have any questions on using the boards we're more than happy to help :heart:

    Take care,
    (mod's name) and the team"

    And not something like this that sounds less kind and more blunt and like the person did something wrong.

    "Hey (name),


    Just wanted to drop by to say we edited a recent post of yours to remove this line *insert part that was removed*


    That's because we have a guideline to not describe methods of self-harm, as that's triggering.


    *insert amount of points* (But don't worry too much about what you said).


    Let us know if you have any questions.


    Take care,

    (mod's name) and the team"


    Really glad to see you're as determined to get this right as we are @Kathryn. :)

    We are very aware that the nature of receiving points, or having a consequence for an action, has the potential to worry people or make them feel like their card is marked. And in all honesty there is some upside to this - knowing that things have consequences is what helps people to act within boundaries and learn what's okay and not okay.

    But we definitely don't want anyone to feel punished for making a human mistake, or for misinterpreting a guideline. We might add a bit more to the main Start Here post around this, but we're not going to be concerned about anyone until they go past roughly 10 active points, because that's a sign that something is more of a persistent issue that we might need to do address.

    We will do everything we can to make sure folks don't feel put-out or judged for getting points. We're still working out the kinks in how we communicate this with people (thank you for the example!), but rest assured that being sensitive and kind is at the top of our priority list, just as it was before this announcement. :)

    About suicidal plans: we are very sensitive to the fact that discussing those is part of someone asking for support, and most of the time we won't give the higher end of points for that. But this is something that, if persistent, becomes a fairly serious problem for the community and something we need to address. At 5 points, someone would need to do that 6 times before a break, and we feel that's a pretty fair baseline.
    Oh, okay haha. I see where you're coming from with the points now - rather than how much you're judging them, it's about how to tell when they have to have a break for it. I understand that.

    I know that it's good to know your actions have consequences :blush: My worry is just that when someone doesn't mean to break the guidelines, they shouldn't feel like there's consequences. It's sort of like if someone keeps purposefully stealing from a shop, then they should know it has consequences, but if they accidentally stole or did it because they were desperate, they shouldn't feel like they've done something wrong. You said that yourself really - "we definitely don't want anyone to feel punished for making a human mistake".

    I think I'm getting my own feelings mixed in this, as much as I'm trying not to. Like I said earlier (and like everyone's probably gathered by now :sweat_smile:) I have really low self esteem and stuff. I probably wouldn't be bringing all of this up if it weren't for the fact that there's probably people on here who are going through similar things to me.

    Thank you so much for being kind, I'm sure you'll do a good job with this :heart:

    Thanks @Kathryn. :)

    It's totally fine to express these things as someone who has low self-esteem, because like you said the people we'll be talking to about points might deal with that as well, so it's good for us to do things in a way that works for everyone. We want to be sensitive to insecurities people might have.

    Appreciate the kind words, and thank you for taking the time to communicate your thoughts around everything - all this feedback is super useful.

    Mike & the team
    We're @Aife@Mike, @Italia and @Ed_ - the staff team here at The Mix. We don't provide support via this account, but if you have any questions about the boards or need a hand finding your way around, feel free to drop us a message. Alternatively, you can head over to the Help Desk.
    Kathleen07
  • LubnaLubna Posts: 167 The Mix convert
    I think it's riduculous people struggle so almost everyone is going to get points. It makes me not want to reach out.
    Life is'nt worth living.
    Kathleen07Maddie05
  • The MixThe Mix Posts: 2,414 Community Managers
    Lubna said:
    I think it's riduculous people struggle so almost everyone is going to get points. It makes me not want to reach out.
    Thanks for the feedback @Lubna. As mentioned before, this is on our radar and we're still working out the best way to communicate around points.

    If you're worried enough not to reach out though, it might be worth us having some conversations via PM to clarify any guideline issues that might be on your mind. If that sounds useful, feel free to drop us a PM and we can talk things through to hopefully help to settle some of those worries.

    The overwhelming majority of posts and members won't incur points, but we're always happy to check posts via PM if you want a second opinion on whether they're within guidelines.

    Mike & the team :) 
    We're @Aife@Mike, @Italia and @Ed_ - the staff team here at The Mix. We don't provide support via this account, but if you have any questions about the boards or need a hand finding your way around, feel free to drop us a message. Alternatively, you can head over to the Help Desk.
  • Kathleen07Kathleen07 Future musician Posts: 1,540 Postholic
    Hey @The Mix, I have a question :)

    What would happen if someone broke multiple guidelines in one post? For example, talked of a suicide plan and described a self-harm method.

    It would make me assume they'd get points for both. So say 3 points for self-harm and 5 points for suicide plan. But points are a way of telling when they'll have to go on a break, so 8 points would be pushing them further to that point which doesn't make much sense when it was only one post.

    8 points isn't much difference in fairness, so to give a better example: imagine a scenario where the person managed to earn 25 points in just one post. That would mean they were really close to a break for the post. One post isn't a long-term issue. So what happens? Do they earn points for every guideline they broke in the post, or is there some sort of compromise?

    I also agree with Lubna that it makes me not want to reach out, but only in a sort of way. I was already apprehensive of doing so for various reasons so it's more me, not the points system xD
    When life leaves us blind, love keeps us kind - Linkin Park

    Sing it for the boys, sing it for the girls, everytime that you lose it sing it for the world - MCR
    Maddie05
  • The MixThe Mix Posts: 2,414 Community Managers
    Thanks @Kathleen07, great question :)

    This depends on exactly what happens. If we can see that multiple guide-breaks were part of one post or incident, it's likely that we'll merge them together and simply give a higher point allocation within one bracket.

    For example, we might give 9 in the 5-9 bracket if we can see that there were multiple issues within that post. If it's a particularly serious situation or there are a couple of separate ones close together, we might consider giving two sets of points. Again though, it depends on the situation and we'll judge it on a case-by-case basis.

    We want to give people their chances, and it wouldn't be fair if someone ended up halfway to a ban for one explicit post for the reasons you mentioned. We will bend this system a bit to what feels most fair and reasonable under the circumstances. :)

    Mike & the team
    We're @Aife@Mike, @Italia and @Ed_ - the staff team here at The Mix. We don't provide support via this account, but if you have any questions about the boards or need a hand finding your way around, feel free to drop us a message. Alternatively, you can head over to the Help Desk.
    Kathleen07
  • One-in-a-millionOne-in-a-million Posts: 447 Rampant Poster
    I’m confused, if we all start on 0 points and gain points for things we do that goes against the guidelines why has @The Mix got so many points? And how come I have 400+ points that I don’t understand how I got in the first place
    Jam_and_JellyMaddie05
  • Jam_and_JellyJam_and_Jelly Posts: 20 Fast Newbie
    I’m confused, if we all start on 0 points and gain points for things we do that goes against the guidelines why has @The Mix got so many points? And how come I have 400+ points that I don’t understand how I got in the first place
    I’m confused on this too I’ve got 18 points but I don’t know what I have done wrong??
    Maddie05
  • GreenTeaGreenTea The moonPosts: 639 Extreme Poster
    edited August 23
    I’m confused, if we all start on 0 points and gain points for things we do that goes against the guidelines why has @The Mix got so many points? And how come I have 400+ points that I don’t understand how I got in the first place

    I don't think the points on your profile are to do with this system! I think those are like "level up points" maybe, not sure, so you know you get badges that say what poster you are because of how much you post?
    Does that make sense?
    I might be completely wrong and this is just a guess of what it is so don't hold me to it!
    Also, you have 400+ posts not points! It's ok don't panic yourselves! 
    The mix feel free to correct me on this! It's just a guess
    Kathleen07The MixMaddie05
  • ShaunieShaunie England 🏠Posts: 5,781 The Mix Elder
    Yeah. Those points on profile have been there for awhile. Nothing to do with this, they said everyone starts at 0 and you'd be contacted if got points.
    I've learnt two people can look at the exact same thing and see something completly different. 
    Kathleen07The MixMaddie05
  • Kathleen07Kathleen07 Future musician Posts: 1,540 Postholic
    I can confirm. The points on your profile are level up points, nothing to do with the points system :) I understand it's confusing!
    When life leaves us blind, love keeps us kind - Linkin Park

    Sing it for the boys, sing it for the girls, everytime that you lose it sing it for the world - MCR
    GreenTea
  • Maddie05Maddie05 UK/NottinghamPosts: 56 Miniposter
    I think this is a great idea! However, I'd feel really bad if I even just get 5 points... Lol. So let's try our best to try not to get as many points, and if possible NONE! 😁
    And do we get warnings? Before getting the point/points? So say, I was speaking in a thread about my suicidal thoughts and self-harm, what happens if I accidentally say something about my suicidal thoughts? Is that just straight away points? Or is it a warning because it was by accident? 😕

    - Maddie
  • Maddie05Maddie05 UK/NottinghamPosts: 56 Miniposter
    Shaunie said:
    The points thing I guess is fair enough. The only problem I have with the actual guidelines is that when someone did like attack you. And you're really upset about it (hard to "move on") - don't attack them back but you just say how it's made you feel. - you basically get told to shut up (in so many words) and told to move on because the attack has moved on. Which imho is completly unfair. You go t seek supoort and if someone's said something that's upset you then you should be able to speak about how it's upset you if you're really upset.

    My memory is a bit bad. But I think In past ages ago in group chat I haven't been able to move on from something that's upset me and was froze. I guess it was fair enough if I was told to stop & didnt ( but now i would stop-  if I was told). But I just don't think should be told to stop in first place.  think should be able to vent about something that's upset you. 

    Edit - my memory must be bad cause surely that didn't happen cause reading over it does sound stupid if happened. Does this happen or did I imagine it?
    I agree! And it probably did happen.. ❤ dunno ❤ if you think you did, then you are right in whichever way! 😝😅
  • Maddie05Maddie05 UK/NottinghamPosts: 56 Miniposter
    The Mix said:
    Okay, lots of things to cover here. Pre-warning that this is going to be a long post, but hopefully useful. I've spoilered up the quotes to make it a bit easier to get through. :)

    inhales deeply

    @GreenTea said:
    An example of what I'm trying to say

    someone's provoking you on the boards. You report it. It starts taking over other threads. You try to ignore it. It take 24 hours (or longer or less) the report to be acknowledged, by that time the person probably would snap..

    And then in theory they should be different sections because you can only ignore for so long and sometimes it might move over to social media, yet the person being provoked is doing everything and trying hard to not react and then they finally do because even after reporting it etc it takes too long etc

    See what I'm trying to say? Im trying my best to explain but I'm in a lot of pain and it's making me struggle to get what I need to say, out

    There's also a huge difference between being provoked on the boards and in chat. In chat it can be sorted quickly, less chance to react. On the boards it's not that easy
    Thanks for elaborating @GreenTea. :) Totally hear what you're saying.

    In this case, we're still of the opinion that if, after all that time, you snap back, you are accountable for that and it is a decision you make. It might be a decision that we can empathise with, but it is your choice to do that rather than take yourself out of that space and manage your emotional reaction in another way. This fits into our wider encouragement of people to do their best to self-moderate.

    Before you said to me that would wouldn't normally remove a photo for scars showing.. but just noticed posting sh leads to Point's... is that like just fresh or are old scars okay? Just slightly confused about it...
    Great question @BubblesGoesBoo - that's something we need to clarify on the breakdown.

    Scars or other bodily markings are okay, particularly if they just happen to be in shot of a photo that isn't anything to do with that. We don't believe scars should be hidden or that they're a bad thing to have, and we're keen to do our part in destigmatising that. :)

    The idea of not showing photos of self-harm is to avoid any triggering imagery. That might be a photo of a fresh injury, things you might use to self-harm, or similar things. If the point of the photo is to show self-harming behaviour, that's where it becomes a problem. If there happens to be something triggering or graphic in an image (e.g. if there's a fresh wound showing in a selfie) we'd delete that too, since it's not safe for community viewing regardless of the purpose of the photo.

    We'll include a note on this over in the main post.

    Think this is a good idea though.. though a tricky one, as it's been said sometimes people break the guidelines by accident.. as someone who suffers from disassociation there's been times in chat that I have no recollection off (I have told yous to boot me if I'm not myself cause of this) I know I have to take responsibility for my actions but is that really fair when it's something I can't control?
    This is a tough one. The one thing we can say is that staff will have full discretion when using this system, so if we do find ourselves in a situation where points should be added but we really don't think it's appropriate, we won't add any. The breakdown in the main post is a guide we use but we have full veto and we will use it if something really doesn't feel right.

    As you say, we're keen to maintain accountability, but there are fringe cases where this might not apply and we'll cross those bridges when we get to them. :)

    Also if someone came into chat in crisis and you had to get help for them, would they get points for reaching out for help when they need it most?
    This is another good question.

    We included anything in the breakdown that we could or would put people on breaks for if it were persistent. Using group chat for crisis support - while not malicious - would become problematic if it were frequent. That's partly because those conversations can be triggering, and partly because the space just isn't setup for that purpose and our moderators aren't trained to give that support. The same thing applies to most group spaces and support-based communities.

    To be clear though, the issue isn't that someone is vulnerable or that they've reached out, it's that the space in which they've chosen to seek crisis support isn't equipped to provide that safely.

    This is a situation where we'd have a huge amount of empathy and respect for that person for being able to reach out, but we would also need to be clear about our guidelines in order to keep everyone safe. It's less of a punishment and more us saying 'we get it, but let's avoid doing this too often'.

    I'm not sure how clear that is, but hopefully that helps clarify our position on it. :)

    @Shaunie said:
    The points thing I guess is fair enough. The only problem I have with the actual guidelines is that when someone did like attack you. And you're really upset about it (hard to "move on") - don't attack them back but you just say how it's made you feel. - you basically get told to shut up (in so many words) and told to move on because the attack has moved on. Which imho is completly unfair. You go t seek supoort and if someone's said something that's upset you then you should be able to speak about how it's upset you if you're really upset.

    My memory is a bit bad. But I think In past ages ago in group chat I haven't been able to move on from something that's upset me and was froze. I guess it was fair enough if I was told to stop & didnt ( but now i would stop-  if I was told). But I just don't think should be told to stop in first place.  think should be able to vent about something that's upset you.
    So, the issue here @Shaunie is more that dwelling on something like this can really drag a session downward. There's no problem with saying you're upset or frustrated, but openly and directly saying it's because of an issue with the chat session creates an unpleasant atmosphere and that's what that guideline is there to guard against. :)

    It doesn't mean you're not allowed to feel upset or that those feelings aren't understandable, because they almost always will be. It's just a case of the space not being appropriate to vent that due to the impact it has on the room as a whole.

    @Aidan said:
    On some sites your points are always instantly visible to you- maybe this could be implemented instead of a user having to PM you guys every time they're curious about their points as this could be awkward for the user and time-consuming for you?
    Been reading our minds @Aidan? ;)

    This is something we really wanted, because you're right - it would be the ideal setup. Everyone would always have access to their points and it would cut out a lot of legwork, as well as avoiding awkwardness or difficulty in asking.

    Unfortunately we can't implement this right now, and the system that does exist in the software we currently use just isn't flexible enough for the community's needs. It's something we do want to develop, and it's on our wishlist. :)

    @Aidan said:
    About this:

    Please note: this list may be adjusted and points might be given to you for something that isn't currently on this list.

    I think it's fair to add things to the list as they happen and you go 'hey, that's pretty bad' but I think it's unfair to punish someone for breaking a rule that doesn't exist yet.

    Maybe telling someone something along the lines of: 

    "Hey, this thing you did was bad for x y z reasons.
    We're gonna let it slide as it's not currently against the rules 
    BUT in future it will incur X amount of points"

    :grey_question:

    Sorry if it seems a little critical, I'm eager to give feedback so you guys can perfect it as much as possible! I do think this is a positive step in eliminating vague or even unwritten rules and helping create accountability for everyone's actions all round :)
    This is an interesting and balanced suggestion, and something we'll consider. :)

    We're not going to add points for something the guidelines say nothing about - that would be unfair for sure. If it's unprecedented, you don't know not to do it. Similarly to @BubblesGoesBoo's point, this is a case where we'd likely decide not to add points.

    This note is here so we don't get people saying they can't get points because what they've done isn't specifically outlined in that list. The purpose of that breakdown isn't to be ultra-prescriptive and account for everything, but rather give you an idea of the scale of severity for what could happen.

    The guidelines should give you all the information you need to judge whether doing or saying something is okay. There will be cases where someone does something that isn't outlined in the breakdown, but is still definitely covered by the guidelines. That's why we added that note. :)

    ---

    This is incredibly useful everyone and please keep your thoughts coming. We're already brainstorming some ideas to improve this as a team and it's only been a day since we put it out to you guys, so thank you! :star:

    Mike & the team

    Omg... It's still really long when you put it on the spoiler up quotes... I wonder how long that took... 😆👍❤🙈
    The Mix
  • The MixThe Mix Posts: 2,414 Community Managers
    edited August 24
    Hey folks,

    @Shaunie @GreenTea and @Kathleen07 are right - the points on your profile are connected to badges and reactions. Guideline-related points are a fully private thing. :) Funnily enough, someone gave feedback very recently to say the 'points' field on profiles could cause a bit of confusion!

    We're currently talking about ways to stop that being an issue, like setting all 'level up' points to zero since we don't use them for anything anyway. We could also change the name of this points system, though other options arguably sound a bit too negative (e.g. 'strikes' or 'infractions').

    We'll include something in the Start Here post to clarify this. :) Thanks for flagging it everyone.

    Maddie05 said:
    I think this is a great idea! However, I'd feel really bad if I even just get 5 points... Lol. So let's try our best to try not to get as many points, and if possible NONE! 😁
    And do we get warnings? Before getting the point/points? So say, I was speaking in a thread about my suicidal thoughts and self-harm, what happens if I accidentally say something about my suicidal thoughts? Is that just straight away points? Or is it a warning because it was by accident? 😕

    - Maddie
    Good question @Maddie05. If you're new and it's a minor hiccup, we probably won't give points for it - that's one of the reasons we included 0 in the 0-4 bracket. It depends what happened, and if it's something particularly disruptive we might decide to add points regardless (e.g. if personal attacks are made).

    In terms of general rules though, we don't give warnings before adding points if we need to do that. You could think of points as the warning - there are no consequence for getting them until you hit 30. :) We'll also never add points without telling you.

    Does that help?

    Mike & the team
    We're @Aife@Mike, @Italia and @Ed_ - the staff team here at The Mix. We don't provide support via this account, but if you have any questions about the boards or need a hand finding your way around, feel free to drop us a message. Alternatively, you can head over to the Help Desk.
    Maddie05
  • Maddie05Maddie05 UK/NottinghamPosts: 56 Miniposter
    The Mix said:
    Hey folks,

    @Shaunie @GreenTea and @Kathleen07 are right - the points on your profile are connected to badges and reactions. Guideline-related points are a fully private thing. :) Funnily enough, someone gave feedback very recently to say the 'points' field on profiles could cause a bit of confusion!

    We're currently talking about ways to stop that being an issue, like setting all 'level up' points to zero since we don't use them for anything anyway. We could also change the name of this points system, though other options arguably sound a bit too negative (e.g. 'strikes' or 'infractions').

    We'll include something in the Start Here post to clarify this. :) Thanks for flagging it everyone.

    Maddie05 said:
    I think this is a great idea! However, I'd feel really bad if I even just get 5 points... Lol. So let's try our best to try not to get as many points, and if possible NONE! 😁
    And do we get warnings? Before getting the point/points? So say, I was speaking in a thread about my suicidal thoughts and self-harm, what happens if I accidentally say something about my suicidal thoughts? Is that just straight away points? Or is it a warning because it was by accident? 😕

    - Maddie
    Good question @Maddie05. If you're new and it's a minor hiccup, we probably won't give points for it - that's one of the reasons we included 0 in the 0-4 bracket. It depends what happened, and if it's something particularly disruptive we might decide to add points regardless (e.g. if personal attacks are made).

    In terms of general rules though, we don't give warnings before adding points if we need to do that. You could think of points as the warning - there are no consequence for getting them until you hit 30. :) We'll also never add points without telling you.

    Does that help?

    Mike & the team
    Thanks for explaining! It helps me understand better <3
    And I didn't notice the 0-4, I thought that would just be the in between, like 1,2,3 or 4 points 😅
    And I get it, those points are classed as the warning :D
    I was just curious, so thanks :d 
    And so we will always get notified if we get added points, or if we are close to 30? 
    Thanks for taking your time to reply! 💙

    - Maddie
  • The MixThe Mix Posts: 2,414 Community Managers
    No worries @Maddie05, happy to help!

    You'll be notified every time you get points. If someone gets close to 30, we usually have more in-depth conversations with them around behavior management to help them use the community in a healthy way. Private communication is a big part of this process and we do our best to be clear about things throughout.

    It's worth noting that it's rare for people to reach that stage. Points expire, so there's wiggle room for everyone to get a few every now and again and not have them build up to anything. We expect most regulars to get a couple from time to time - we're all human after all. :)

    Mike & the team
    We're @Aife@Mike, @Italia and @Ed_ - the staff team here at The Mix. We don't provide support via this account, but if you have any questions about the boards or need a hand finding your way around, feel free to drop us a message. Alternatively, you can head over to the Help Desk.
    Maddie05
  • Maddie05Maddie05 UK/NottinghamPosts: 56 Miniposter

    No worries @Maddie05, happy to help!

    You'll be notified every time you get points. If someone gets close to 30, we usually have more in-depth conversations with them around behavior management to help them use the community in a healthy way. Private communication is a big part of this process and we do our best to be clear about things throughout.

    It's worth noting that it's rare for people to reach that stage. Points expire, so there's wiggle room for everyone to get a few every now and again and not have them build up to anything. We expect most regulars to get a couple from time to time - we're all human after all. :)

    Mike & the team
    Ahh, I get it <3
    I guess you gotta be a massive rebel to get to 30 then. 😅
    But you are 100% correct - we are all human, like I found this quote... "I made decisions that I regret, and I took them as learning experiences... I'm human, not perfect, like anybody else." 
    thanks again!
    Take care

    - Maddie
  • independent_independent_ Boards Baby ScotlandPosts: 1,213 Fanatical Poster
    I think this is a really good system. I was also confused about the profile level up points and the community guideline points, so thanks for clarifying that. 

    This might be an unrelated question but what exactly are the level up points anyway? I’ve been wondering this since the new boards launched but have never found the opportunity to ask - I guess this is it ;) What do they do? What makes the total go up?
  • The MixThe Mix Posts: 2,414 Community Managers
    Maddie05 said:
    But you are 100% correct - we are all human, like I found this quote... "I made decisions that I regret, and I took them as learning experiences... I'm human, not perfect, like anybody else."

    Nice quote @Maddie05! And very true - we try and work by that way of thinking. :)

    I think this is a really good system. I was also confused about the profile level up points and the community guideline points, so thanks for clarifying that. 

    This might be an unrelated question but what exactly are the level up points anyway? I’ve been wondering this since the new boards launched but have never found the opportunity to ask - I guess this is it ;) What do they do? What makes the total go up?

    Good question @[email protected]_. So we actually just removed the 'points' field from all profiles as we don't use it for anything, along with 'roles' and 'visits.

    In theory the points you saw on your profile would be linked to badges and reactions; each reaction and badge has a certain number of points or 'score' associated with it, and likewise we could set up negative reactions that reduce someone's total as well. It would work a bit like reputation - that's something you might see on other communities (tech communities for example).

    We don't think there's much benefit to using this for The Mix, because it seems unfair to reduce everyone's contributions to a number. We also don't want to make the boards competitive, so we've never made anything of it. Given that, we decided to remove the field from profiles altogether (which is something we should probably have done a while ago!).

    Mike & the team :star:
    We're @Aife@Mike, @Italia and @Ed_ - the staff team here at The Mix. We don't provide support via this account, but if you have any questions about the boards or need a hand finding your way around, feel free to drop us a message. Alternatively, you can head over to the Help Desk.
    independent_
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