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The points system

TheMixTheMix Posts: 3,112 Boards Guru
edited September 2019 in General Chat
Afternoon Mixlorians!

As with any online community, we have rules and guidelines we expect you to follow. When these are consistently broken, we may put you on a temporary break which can be short term or long term depending on the situation. Currently, if we’re close to putting you on a break, we will talk this through with you via PM to help you work through any barriers you're facing on the community.

However, we’re conscious that some of our guidelines do naturally have grey areas, and what could lead to a break isn’t always as a clear as it could be. Breaking some guidelines isn’t as big of a deal as others, and it can generally be a little confusing.

To help clear this up, we’re trying something that is fairly standard in the rest of the online world – a points system. You could think of it like how you get points on driving licenses – you reach a certain number and then can’t drive for x number of months. Some communities use a three strike policy and others have more complex systems. Either way, you typically get banned (temporarily or permanently) when you reach a certain number of strikes or points.

Our hope is that our version of this will give you an idea of exactly what could lead you to a warning or a break, and let you keep an eye on how close you might be to that. It should make these things clearer for all of us.

So, how does the new points system work?

We have guidelines that we ask everyone to follow when joining the boards and group chat. If you break the guidelines of the space you're using, we will typically give you points for it.

If we do, we will PM you directly to tell you. We'll explain what guideline you broke, tell you how many points we added, and give you an update on your current total.

We may also work with you on ways to manage your behaviour if that's something you find useful.

Unless we have no way to contact you, we will never give you points without your knowledge.

Once your account reaches 30 points, you will be put on a temporary break from using the boards and/or chat.

What are points given for?

You can find the breakdown of what we give points for over in the main informational post. There is also an FAQ there, and we'll update that as we get questions.

Do I have points right now?

As of this launch, everyone's points are at zero. If you have recently been told that you are close to a break, we will PM you directly to explain where you stand. If you're already on a break from either the boards or group chat (or both), that won't change.

Don't let this worry you

We're not expecting everyone to stay at zero points all the time. It should be fairly common for people to have up to 10 points, because we all overshare sometimes, act impulsively, or misunderstand things. We're all human and that's why we have moderators.

If we message you to say you've been given points, it's truly not personal. It doesn't affect how we see you and it doesn't mean you're in trouble. Think of it like the usual messages we send if we need to edit your posts - it'll be the exact same thing, only we're keeping a record to check if something becomes a regular occurrence that we might need to chat to you about.

Please give us your feedback

This process is still in beta for us right now, so we'll be adjusting things and making changes as we go. Please let us know what you think in this thread. We might not be able to make every change suggested, but we will take everything on board.

The Community Team

PS, before asking a question, check the FAQ in the main post!

Post edited by JustV on
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Comments

  • JellyelephantJellyelephant Posts: 1,908 Extreme Poster
    I have a question. There was two things in the other thread and I didn’t understand. One says posting harmful quantities? What does this mean? Like if ur on the boards all day every day??? And what counts as bragging about sex lol 

    i dont wanna get banned. 
    The sun will rise and we will try again 
  • Former MemberFormer Member ☕🌻☕ Posts: 12,938 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    I feel like attacking when provoked should be a low point.. because I don't feel its fair putting it at the same level as being provoked. Sometimes you get pushed too far and really need to stick up for yourself. I feel like they need to be different levels of points honestly.. it would make more sense, how I see it anyway.
    (Personally my opinion is if someone fights back when being provoked seriously, it's not Thier fault)
  • JellyelephantJellyelephant Posts: 1,908 Extreme Poster
    I agree with you green tea. Personally I struggle if someone attacks me not to respond. It comes from past abuse for me, I can’t let myself appear weak to anyone now so I fight back. Stupid lol. Although saying that, last night in chat someone told me to fuck off and I laughed and didn’t respond. Was tempted tho. Is so hard when someone insults you not to put them in their place 
    The sun will rise and we will try again 
  • Former MemberFormer Member ☕🌻☕ Posts: 12,938 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Jellyelephant said:
    I agree with you green tea. Personally I struggle if someone attacks me not to respond. It comes from past abuse for me, I can’t let myself appear weak to anyone now so I fight back. Stupid lol. Although saying that, last night in chat someone told me to fuck off and I laughed and didn’t respond. Was tempted tho. Is so hard when someone insults you not to put them in their place 


    Exactly. It just seems unfair to have them in the same point section. If someone provokes and goes for you, it's literally natural to stick up for yourself. I'm just. Maybe I'm just being sensitive about it, I just really don't think it's fair
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,938 Extreme Poster
    This sounds clever and really useful for the most part, but I'm unsure about something.

    People sometimes break the guidelines by accident, and it seems sort of unfair and harsh to give people "points" for making a small mistake.

    Like, "we edited your post because you said something that could be interpreted as a method of self-harm, you now have 5 points".

    I'm someone who has really low self-esteem, and receiving a message like that would feel crap. It would feed into my feelings that everyone's mad at me, that I can never do anything right, and that would increase my suicidal thoughts. Which if anything would make me more likely to break the guidelines, but anyway. I understand that people sign up to the rules, and that you want to keep this place safe for everyone - I really appreciate what you do - but I think just make sure you're gentle, or else it doesn't really feel like you're actually looking after the community.

    I know that you've explained that it's not personal, but I think it could still feel that way.

    My suggestion would be that you make sure to tell them in the message that it happens to everyone sometimes and that giving them points isn't something personal?

    I hope I don't sound rude or anything. I don't want to get my own personal problems mixed in with this and take it out on an issue that wasn't ever there, and it's not to do with you if it did sound mean or irrational :blush:
  • Millie2787Millie2787 Community Champion Posts: 5,194 Part of The Furniture
    @Jellyelephant and @GreenTea I have a feeling it will probably be that attacking when provoked would be the lower end of the points range where as the provoking would be the higher end maybe - but I agree with you both I think it could do with changing becuase I’m quite overly sensitive and won’t let people say comments about me becuase I do that very much in the spur of the moment 
    Sometimes all you need is one person to believe in you , for you to begin to believe in yourself.
  • TheMixTheMix Posts: 3,112 Boards Guru
    Interesting points there @GreenTea and @Jellyelephant. Our stance on this has always been that the way you respond to something is, to a degree, your decision. Provocation doesn't give anyone an excuse to attack somebody else.

    We also draw a big distinction between sticking up for yourself and attacking other people. Sticking up for yourself and respectfully holding your ground is totally fine, but problems occur when that turns into personal attacks or aggression.

    With 'harmful quantities' @Jellyelephant, we weren't sure how to phrase this. Every wording we tried felt wrong, but basically the rule is that it's cool to say you had a glass of wine, but not cool to say how many packets of pills you took for an overdose. We're very open to alterative ways of wording that one - we talked about it for a while and couldn't quite crack it. :tongue:

    Oh, I should also clarify it's quantities of substances.

    It becomes bragging when you're aimlessly telling everyone how many people you've slept with, describing things in a distasteful or offensive way, etc. Saying you had a good night with someone is completely fine. :)

    Mike & the team
  • SienaSiena Posts: 15,681 Skive's The Limit
    I think there are ways to stick up for yourself that doesn't go agains the rules or stoop to the same levels. Maybe just misunderstood what you mean. Dk
    “And when they look at you, they won't see everything you've been through. They won't see the **** that turned to scars that began to fade with time. They won't see the heartbreaking things that shook up and changed your entire world. They won't know how many tears you cried or even what it was you were crying about. They won't see how strong you had to be because you had no other choice. What they will see though is how compassionate you are because you experienced pain. What they will see is how kind you are because you experienced how cruel the world is. What they will see is how good you are because you've seen how bad things or people can be. The difference between you and your experiences are who you choose to be, despite everything that could have turned you cold and unkind.You are the good the world needs and the best of us.” ~ Kirsten Corley
  • TheMixTheMix Posts: 3,112 Boards Guru
    Kathryn said:
    This sounds clever and really useful for the most part, but I'm unsure about something.

    People sometimes break the guidelines by accident, and it seems sort of unfair and harsh to give people "points" for making a small mistake.

    Like, "we edited your post because you said something that could be interpreted as a method of self-harm, you now have 5 points".

    I'm someone who has really low self-esteem, and receiving a message like that would feel crap. It would feed into my feelings that everyone's mad at me, that I can never do anything right, and that would increase my suicidal thoughts. Which if anything would make me more likely to break the guidelines, but anyway. I understand that people sign up to the rules, and that you want to keep this place safe for everyone - I really appreciate what you do - but I think just make sure you're gentle, or else it doesn't really feel like you're actually looking after the community.

    I know that you've explained that it's not personal, but I think it could still feel that way.

    My suggestion would be that you make sure to tell them in the message that it happens to everyone sometimes and that giving them points isn't something personal?

    I hope I don't sound rude or anything. I don't want to get my own personal problems mixed in with this and take it out on an issue that wasn't ever there, and it's not to do with you if it did sound mean or irrational :blush:
    This is really valuable @kathryn and something we're very wary of. We really don't want anyone to feel bad or ashamed for getting a small amount of points - it's going to be the case for everybody. :)

    We'll take this on board and make sure we're looking at the way we communicate this and that we're being sensitive in the ways we need to be. It's a delicate process and we want to get it right.

    Mike & the team
  • Former MemberFormer Member ☕🌻☕ Posts: 12,938 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    I never said being provoked is a reason to attack back, but I just feel like the person who started it should get more points than someone who bit back. Some people can only take so much and with the slow response to reported posts, it can make no reacting really really difficult.

    Sorry I'm not trying to cause an issue. I'm just struggling to understand how they belong in the same point section for reasons said above
  • SienaSiena Posts: 15,681 Skive's The Limit
    edited August 2019
    I think the points should be the same imo but do kinda see what you mean
    “And when they look at you, they won't see everything you've been through. They won't see the **** that turned to scars that began to fade with time. They won't see the heartbreaking things that shook up and changed your entire world. They won't know how many tears you cried or even what it was you were crying about. They won't see how strong you had to be because you had no other choice. What they will see though is how compassionate you are because you experienced pain. What they will see is how kind you are because you experienced how cruel the world is. What they will see is how good you are because you've seen how bad things or people can be. The difference between you and your experiences are who you choose to be, despite everything that could have turned you cold and unkind.You are the good the world needs and the best of us.” ~ Kirsten Corley
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,938 Extreme Poster
    The Mix said:
    Kathryn said:
    This sounds clever and really useful for the most part, but I'm unsure about something.

    People sometimes break the guidelines by accident, and it seems sort of unfair and harsh to give people "points" for making a small mistake.

    Like, "we edited your post because you said something that could be interpreted as a method of self-harm, you now have 5 points".

    I'm someone who has really low self-esteem, and receiving a message like that would feel crap. It would feed into my feelings that everyone's mad at me, that I can never do anything right, and that would increase my suicidal thoughts. Which if anything would make me more likely to break the guidelines, but anyway. I understand that people sign up to the rules, and that you want to keep this place safe for everyone - I really appreciate what you do - but I think just make sure you're gentle, or else it doesn't really feel like you're actually looking after the community.

    I know that you've explained that it's not personal, but I think it could still feel that way.

    My suggestion would be that you make sure to tell them in the message that it happens to everyone sometimes and that giving them points isn't something personal?

    I hope I don't sound rude or anything. I don't want to get my own personal problems mixed in with this and take it out on an issue that wasn't ever there, and it's not to do with you if it did sound mean or irrational :blush:
    This is really valuable @kathryn and something we're very wary of. We really don't want anyone to feel bad or ashamed for getting a small amount of points - it's going to be the case for everybody. :)

    We'll take this on board and make sure we're looking at the way we communicate this and that we're being sensitive in the ways we need to be. It's a delicate process and we want to get it right.

    Mike & the team
    Thanks for being nice and awesome! :heart:
  • TheMixTheMix Posts: 3,112 Boards Guru
    You're not causing an issue @GreenTea. :)

    The main thing is we don't want to give someone a free pass or let them get off easily if they react very intensely to something that you could argue is provocation, but may in itself be very minor.

    The brackets are there for a reason, and we will adjust how many points we give depending on the situation. If we can see a reaction to something is quite understandable, we might give the minimum points for that and more for the provoker. We do have some empathy for what it's like to be in that situation, and we'll try to be fair.

    Mike & the team
  • Former MemberFormer Member ☕🌻☕ Posts: 12,938 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    I just don't think it belongs in the same point section but I'm just stupid so I'll shut up 
  • TheMixTheMix Posts: 3,112 Boards Guru
    edited August 2019
    It's also worth noting here that what counts as provocation, or a reasonable response to provocation, is incredibly subjective. :)

    GreenTea said:
    I just don't think it belongs in the same point section but I'm just stupid so I'll shut up 
    You're not stupid at all. It's a valid point of view and one we'll take on board.

    We've always held the principle that how you respond to a situation is equally as important as the situation itself, and what someone might have said to instigate an argument. We'll be sticking to this for the time being, but it's good to know there are some different opinions out there.

    Mike & the team
  • Former MemberFormer Member ☕🌻☕ Posts: 12,938 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    edited August 2019
    An example of what I'm trying to say

    someone's provoking you on the boards. You report it. It starts taking over other threads. You try to ignore it. It take 24 hours (or longer or less) the report to be acknowledged, by that time the person probably would snap..

    And then in theory they should be different sections because you can only ignore for so long and sometimes it might move over to social media, yet the person being provoked is doing everything and trying hard to not react and then they finally do because even after reporting it etc it takes too long etc

    See what I'm trying to say? Im trying my best to explain but I'm in a lot of pain and it's making me struggle to get what I need to say, out

    There's also a huge difference between being provoked on the boards and in chat. In chat it can be sorted quickly, less chance to react. On the boards it's not that easy
  • Former MemberFormer Member Miniposter Posts: 810 Part of The Mix Family
    I think this is a good idea as sometimes as you said guidelines can be really confusing sometimes, so it’s good that you will know if you have done something wrong etc 😊
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 3,590 Community Veteran
    Before you said to me that would wouldn't normally remove a photo for scars showing.. but just noticed posting sh leads to Point's... is that like just fresh or are old scars okay? Just slightly confused about it...

    Think this is a good idea though.. though a tricky one, as it's been said sometimes people break the guidelines by accident.. as someone who suffers from disassociation there's been times in chat that I have no recollection off (I have told yous to boot me if I'm not myself cause of this) I know I have to take responsibility for my actions but is that really fair when it's something I can't control?

    Also if someone came into chat in crisis and you had to get help for them, would they get points for reaching out for help when they need it most? 
  • SienaSiena Posts: 15,681 Skive's The Limit
    edited August 2019
    The points thing I guess is fair enough. The only problem I have with the actual guidelines is that when someone did like attack you. And you're really upset about it (hard to "move on") - don't attack them back but you just say how it's made you feel. - you basically get told to shut up (in so many words) and told to move on because the attack has moved on. Which imho is completly unfair. You go t seek supoort and if someone's said something that's upset you then you should be able to speak about how it's upset you if you're really upset.

    My memory is a bit bad. But I think In past ages ago in group chat I haven't been able to move on from something that's upset me and was froze. I guess it was fair enough if I was told to stop & didnt ( but now i would stop-  if I was told). But I just don't think should be told to stop in first place.  think should be able to vent about something that's upset you. 

    Edit - my memory must be bad cause surely that didn't happen cause reading over it does sound stupid if happened. Does this happen or did I imagine it?
    “And when they look at you, they won't see everything you've been through. They won't see the **** that turned to scars that began to fade with time. They won't see the heartbreaking things that shook up and changed your entire world. They won't know how many tears you cried or even what it was you were crying about. They won't see how strong you had to be because you had no other choice. What they will see though is how compassionate you are because you experienced pain. What they will see is how kind you are because you experienced how cruel the world is. What they will see is how good you are because you've seen how bad things or people can be. The difference between you and your experiences are who you choose to be, despite everything that could have turned you cold and unkind.You are the good the world needs and the best of us.” ~ Kirsten Corley
  • DancerDancer Community Champion Posts: 8,103 Legendary Poster
    Aidan said:
    On some sites your points are always instantly visible to you- maybe this could be implemented instead of a user having to PM you guys every time they're curious about their points as this could be awkward for the user and time-consuming for you?

    About this:

    Please note: this list may be adjusted and points might be given to you for something that isn't currently on this list.

    I think it's fair to add things to the list as they happen and you go 'hey, that's pretty bad' but I think it's unfair to punish someone for breaking a rule that doesn't exist yet.

    Maybe telling someone something along the lines of: 

    "Hey, this thing you did was bad for x y z reasons.
    We're gonna let it slide as it's not currently against the rules 
    BUT in future it will incur X amount of points"

    :grey_question:

    Sorry if it seems a little critical, I'm eager to give feedback so you guys can perfect it as much as possible! I do think this is a positive step in eliminating vague or even unwritten rules and helping create accountability for everyone's actions all round :)
    I actually quite like your idea of the thing about the letting it slide for once if it is an unexplained rule. Sometimes if it is a bad violation then it might not be possible though. I get what you are saying and respect the opinion.

    Maybe @The Mix could be more specific though with the thing about the unwritten rules even if it is in a pm. 

    I also agree with your idea about the amount of points being visible to you and only you (except mods of course.) 
    "There's a part of me I can't get back. A little girl grew up too fast. All it took was once. I'll never be the same." ~ Demi Lovato
    "The way that I have found the light in my life is through the expressive arts because I know that I will be accepted for the way I am." ~ Me
    "I'm going to get strong again and see you soon. " ~ Anonymous 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,938 Extreme Poster
    Aidan said:
    On some sites your points are always instantly visible to you- maybe this could be implemented instead of a user having to PM you guys every time they're curious about their points as this could be awkward for the user and time-consuming for you?
    I really like that idea :smile:

    Maybe you could have it so that you have points on your profile, that only you and the mods can see? If you want to make sure they know they've gotten points, you could have them get a notification. Is something like that possible? I think it would be better because you then don't have to sound so accusing by messaging them their points.
  • TheMixTheMix Posts: 3,112 Boards Guru
    edited September 17
    Okay, lots of things to cover here. Pre-warning that this is going to be a long post, but hopefully useful. I've spoilered up the quotes to make it a bit easier to get through. :)

    inhales deeply

    @GreenTea said:
    An example of what I'm trying to say

    someone's provoking you on the boards. You report it. It starts taking over other threads. You try to ignore it. It take 24 hours (or longer or less) the report to be acknowledged, by that time the person probably would snap..

    And then in theory they should be different sections because you can only ignore for so long and sometimes it might move over to social media, yet the person being provoked is doing everything and trying hard to not react and then they finally do because even after reporting it etc it takes too long etc

    See what I'm trying to say? Im trying my best to explain but I'm in a lot of pain and it's making me struggle to get what I need to say, out

    There's also a huge difference between being provoked on the boards and in chat. In chat it can be sorted quickly, less chance to react. On the boards it's not that easy
    Thanks for elaborating @GreenTea. :) Totally hear what you're saying.

    In this case, we're still of the opinion that if, after all that time, you snap back, you are accountable for that and it is a decision you make. It might be a decision that we can empathise with, but it is your choice to do that rather than take yourself out of that space and manage your emotional reaction in another way. This fits into our wider encouragement of people to do their best to self-moderate.

    @"Past User" said:
    Before you said to me that would wouldn't normally remove a photo for scars showing.. but just noticed posting sh leads to Point's... is that like just fresh or are old scars okay? Just slightly confused about it...
    Great question @Past User - that's something we need to clarify on the breakdown.

    Scars or other bodily markings are okay, particularly if they just happen to be in shot of a photo that isn't anything to do with that. We don't believe scars should be hidden or that they're a bad thing to have, and we're keen to do our part in destigmatising that. :)

    The idea of not showing photos of self-harm is to avoid any triggering imagery. That might be a photo of a fresh injury, things you might use to self-harm, or similar things. If the point of the photo is to show self-harming behaviour, that's where it becomes a problem. If there happens to be something triggering or graphic in an image (e.g. if there's a fresh wound showing in a selfie) we'd delete that too, since it's not safe for community viewing regardless of the purpose of the photo.

    We'll include a note on this over in the main post.

    @"Past User" said:
    Think this is a good idea though.. though a tricky one, as it's been said sometimes people break the guidelines by accident.. as someone who suffers from disassociation there's been times in chat that I have no recollection off (I have told yous to boot me if I'm not myself cause of this) I know I have to take responsibility for my actions but is that really fair when it's something I can't control?
    This is a tough one. The one thing we can say is that staff will have full discretion when using this system, so if we do find ourselves in a situation where points should be added but we really don't think it's appropriate, we won't add any. The breakdown in the main post is a guide we use but we have full veto and we will use it if something really doesn't feel right.

    As you say, we're keen to maintain accountability, but there are fringe cases where this might not apply and we'll cross those bridges when we get to them. :)

    @"Past User" said:
    Also if someone came into chat in crisis and you had to get help for them, would they get points for reaching out for help when they need it most?
    This is another good question.

    We included anything in the breakdown that we could or would put people on breaks for if it were persistent. Using group chat for crisis support - while not malicious - would become problematic if it were frequent. That's partly because those conversations can be triggering, and partly because the space just isn't setup for that purpose and our moderators aren't trained to give that support. The same thing applies to most group spaces and support-based communities.

    To be clear though, the issue isn't that someone is vulnerable or that they've reached out, it's that the space in which they've chosen to seek crisis support isn't equipped to provide that safely.

    This is a situation where we'd have a huge amount of empathy and respect for that person for being able to reach out, but we would also need to be clear about our guidelines in order to keep everyone safe. It's less of a punishment and more us saying 'we get it, but let's avoid doing this too often'.

    I'm not sure how clear that is, but hopefully that helps clarify our position on it. :)

    @Shaunie said:
    The points thing I guess is fair enough. The only problem I have with the actual guidelines is that when someone did like attack you. And you're really upset about it (hard to "move on") - don't attack them back but you just say how it's made you feel. - you basically get told to shut up (in so many words) and told to move on because the attack has moved on. Which imho is completly unfair. You go t seek supoort and if someone's said something that's upset you then you should be able to speak about how it's upset you if you're really upset.

    My memory is a bit bad. But I think In past ages ago in group chat I haven't been able to move on from something that's upset me and was froze. I guess it was fair enough if I was told to stop & didnt ( but now i would stop-  if I was told). But I just don't think should be told to stop in first place.  think should be able to vent about something that's upset you.
    So, the issue here @Shaunie is more that dwelling on something like this can really drag a session downward. There's no problem with saying you're upset or frustrated, but openly and directly saying it's because of an issue with the chat session creates an unpleasant atmosphere and that's what that guideline is there to guard against. :)

    It doesn't mean you're not allowed to feel upset or that those feelings aren't understandable, because they almost always will be. It's just a case of the space not being appropriate to vent that due to the impact it has on the room as a whole.

    @Aidan said:
    On some sites your points are always instantly visible to you- maybe this could be implemented instead of a user having to PM you guys every time they're curious about their points as this could be awkward for the user and time-consuming for you?
    Been reading our minds @Aidan? ;)

    This is something we really wanted, because you're right - it would be the ideal setup. Everyone would always have access to their points and it would cut out a lot of legwork, as well as avoiding awkwardness or difficulty in asking.

    Unfortunately we can't implement this right now, and the system that does exist in the software we currently use just isn't flexible enough for the community's needs. It's something we do want to develop, and it's on our wishlist. :)

    @Aidan said:
    About this:

    Please note: this list may be adjusted and points might be given to you for something that isn't currently on this list.

    I think it's fair to add things to the list as they happen and you go 'hey, that's pretty bad' but I think it's unfair to punish someone for breaking a rule that doesn't exist yet.

    Maybe telling someone something along the lines of: 

    "Hey, this thing you did was bad for x y z reasons.
    We're gonna let it slide as it's not currently against the rules 
    BUT in future it will incur X amount of points"

    :grey_question:

    Sorry if it seems a little critical, I'm eager to give feedback so you guys can perfect it as much as possible! I do think this is a positive step in eliminating vague or even unwritten rules and helping create accountability for everyone's actions all round :)
    This is an interesting and balanced suggestion, and something we'll consider. :)

    We're not going to add points for something the guidelines say nothing about - that would be unfair for sure. If it's unprecedented, you don't know not to do it. Similarly to @Past User's point, this is a case where we'd likely decide not to add points.

    This note is here so we don't get people saying they can't get points because what they've done isn't specifically outlined in that list. The purpose of that breakdown isn't to be ultra-prescriptive and account for everything, but rather give you an idea of the scale of severity for what could happen.

    The guidelines should give you all the information you need to judge whether doing or saying something is okay. There will be cases where someone does something that isn't outlined in the breakdown, but is still definitely covered by the guidelines. That's why we added that note. :)

    ---

    This is incredibly useful everyone and please keep your thoughts coming. We're already brainstorming some ideas to improve this as a team and it's only been a day since we put it out to you guys, so thank you! :star:

    Mike & the team

    Post edited by TheMix on
  • TheMixTheMix Posts: 3,112 Boards Guru
    edited August 2019
    Also, just to be clear, we're fully understanding of people having the odd outburst or lapse in judgement. We all do that - we're all human. That's why these points expire. :) 

    90% of the time, breaking a guideline isn't a major issue - it's doing so frequently and after discussions with staff which leads us to put people on breaks and give warnings and such.

    Mike & the team
  • JellyelephantJellyelephant Posts: 1,908 Extreme Poster
    Tbh I have thought about this some more what I said about standing up for myself.... and ur response etc it has made me think and I reckon you have the right idea. I know I still struggle if someone hurts my feelings or something to control my reaction and not go off on one.... which I was also doing in real life lol.... but when I was reflecting today after an incident in chat last night well I think am getting better at it. For example my first impulse was to rage at people in chat and say things that probably would be inappropriate BUT I actually removed myself from chat and I PM the mix instead to vent my feelings.... and then felt better today and was proud how I managed it. Don’t get me wrong I’m still learning and have long way to go and probs won’t get it right every time.... but I guess is same in real life too - it’s not appropriate to insult people and try and make them feel weaker than you COs u feel threatened lol. It reminds me of something CAMHS use to tell me.... imagine ur walking along and someone pushes you into a river, it’s not ur fault ur in their but it’s ur responsibility to try and get yourself out. Kinda same principle I suppose. 

    Sorry i I don’t actually know what the point is I’m making but more of a reflection and that on further thinking I think the mix you guys are right on your stance and I didn’t realise this before. 
    The sun will rise and we will try again 
  • SienaSiena Posts: 15,681 Skive's The Limit
    edited August 2019
    The Mix said:


    @Shaunie said:
    The points thing I guess is fair enough. The only problem I have with the actual guidelines is that when someone did like attack you. And you're really upset about it (hard to "move on") - don't attack them back but you just say how it's made you feel. - you basically get told to shut up (in so many words) and told to move on because the attack has moved on. Which imho is completly unfair. You go t seek supoort and if someone's said something that's upset you then you should be able to speak about how it's upset you if you're really upset.

    My memory is a bit bad. But I think In past ages ago in group chat I haven't been able to move on from something that's upset me and was froze. I guess it was fair enough if I was told to stop & didnt ( but now i would stop-  if I was told). But I just don't think should be told to stop in first place.  think should be able to vent about something that's upset you.
    So, the issue here @Shaunie is more that dwelling on something like this can really drag a session downward. There's no problem with saying you're upset or frustrated, but openly and directly saying it's because of an issue with the chat session creates an unpleasant atmosphere and that's what that guideline is there to guard against. :) 

    It doesn't mean you're not allowed to feel upset or that those feelings aren't understandable, because they almost always will be. It's just a case of the space not being appropriate to vent that due to the impact it has on the room as 
    But most things that people can be abit horrible about is because of something you have already said/ struggling with and then someone agree with it. Even tho it's bad thing to agree with. Like say "I think everyone thinks I'm annoying" then someone agrees and starts being horrible. Then you carry on saying how you feel that everyone thinks you're annoying but not talking about argument but then you're being told to shut up about why you came into chat in first place just cause someone decided to agree when didnt actually want anyone to agree lol. Then upsetting that cant speak about what you wanted to cause after it you get told to completly change the conversation 

    Maybe not irrevant to thread sorry just kinda annoying that it would happen/has
    “And when they look at you, they won't see everything you've been through. They won't see the **** that turned to scars that began to fade with time. They won't see the heartbreaking things that shook up and changed your entire world. They won't know how many tears you cried or even what it was you were crying about. They won't see how strong you had to be because you had no other choice. What they will see though is how compassionate you are because you experienced pain. What they will see is how kind you are because you experienced how cruel the world is. What they will see is how good you are because you've seen how bad things or people can be. The difference between you and your experiences are who you choose to be, despite everything that could have turned you cold and unkind.You are the good the world needs and the best of us.” ~ Kirsten Corley
  • SienaSiena Posts: 15,681 Skive's The Limit
    edited August 2019
    Jellyelephant said:
     imagine ur walking along and someone pushes you into a river, it’s not ur fault ur in their but it’s ur responsibility to try and get yourself out. Kinda same principle I suppose. 

    You also wouldn't then come out and push them into the river as well, to be horrible back ,with just the reason " I was provoked" lol. and then saying that it means less because they did it first. It's still the same thing and still wrong even tho maybe tempting- still wrong since they was wrong too & responsible for what do.

    “And when they look at you, they won't see everything you've been through. They won't see the **** that turned to scars that began to fade with time. They won't see the heartbreaking things that shook up and changed your entire world. They won't know how many tears you cried or even what it was you were crying about. They won't see how strong you had to be because you had no other choice. What they will see though is how compassionate you are because you experienced pain. What they will see is how kind you are because you experienced how cruel the world is. What they will see is how good you are because you've seen how bad things or people can be. The difference between you and your experiences are who you choose to be, despite everything that could have turned you cold and unkind.You are the good the world needs and the best of us.” ~ Kirsten Corley
  • TheMixTheMix Posts: 3,112 Boards Guru
    Jellyelephant said:
    Tbh I have thought about this some more what I said about standing up for myself.... and ur response etc it has made me think and I reckon you have the right idea. I know I still struggle if someone hurts my feelings or something to control my reaction and not go off on one.... which I was also doing in real life lol.... but when I was reflecting today after an incident in chat last night well I think am getting better at it. For example my first impulse was to rage at people in chat and say things that probably would be inappropriate BUT I actually removed myself from chat and I PM the mix instead to vent my feelings.... and then felt better today and was proud how I managed it. Don’t get me wrong I’m still learning and have long way to go and probs won’t get it right every time.... but I guess is same in real life too - it’s not appropriate to insult people and try and make them feel weaker than you COs u feel threatened lol. It reminds me of something CAMHS use to tell me.... imagine ur walking along and someone pushes you into a river, it’s not ur fault ur in their but it’s ur responsibility to try and get yourself out. Kinda same principle I suppose. 

    Sorry i I don’t actually know what the point is I’m making but more of a reflection and that on further thinking I think the mix you guys are right on your stance and I didn’t realise this before. 
    This is so good to hear @Jellyelephant - good for you. Sounds like a really useful reflection. :)

    That quote is a great way to think about it, and you're right that the same ideas apply to 'real life' scenarios. Skills around managing emotion and responding rather than reacting are very transferable, and can be useful in all areas of life.

    Shaunie said:
    The Mix said:


    @Shaunie said:
    The points thing I guess is fair enough. The only problem I have with the actual guidelines is that when someone did like attack you. And you're really upset about it (hard to "move on") - don't attack them back but you just say how it's made you feel. - you basically get told to shut up (in so many words) and told to move on because the attack has moved on. Which imho is completly unfair. You go t seek supoort and if someone's said something that's upset you then you should be able to speak about how it's upset you if you're really upset.

    My memory is a bit bad. But I think In past ages ago in group chat I haven't been able to move on from something that's upset me and was froze. I guess it was fair enough if I was told to stop & didnt ( but now i would stop-  if I was told). But I just don't think should be told to stop in first place.  think should be able to vent about something that's upset you.
    So, the issue here @Shaunie is more that dwelling on something like this can really drag a session downward. There's no problem with saying you're upset or frustrated, but openly and directly saying it's because of an issue with the chat session creates an unpleasant atmosphere and that's what that guideline is there to guard against. :) 

    It doesn't mean you're not allowed to feel upset or that those feelings aren't understandable, because they almost always will be. It's just a case of the space not being appropriate to vent that due to the impact it has on the room as 
    But most things that people can be abit horrible about is because of something you have already said/ struggling with and then someone agree with it. Even tho it's bad thing to agree with. Like say "I think everyone thinks I'm annoying" then someone agrees and starts being horrible. Then you carry on saying how you feel that everyone thinks you're annoying but not talking about argument but then you're being told to shut up about why you came into chat in first place just cause someone decided to agree when didnt actually want anyone to agree lol. Then upsetting that cant speak about what you wanted to cause after it you get told to completly change the conversation 

    Maybe not irrevant to thread sorry just kinda annoying that it would happen/has
    Hmmm, interesting example @Shaunie...

    If, when you say "I think everyone thinks I'm annoying", you're referring to people in the group, it's fair for a moderator to ask you to move on if that leads to something disruptive happening. The reason for that is because there's not a whole lot the group can do to support you with that and those comments can quickly spiral or become circular, and potentially disruptive themselves.

    If that feeling is something you struggle with in wider life, that's an okay thing to talk about and is a more productive route to go down if you want to have that conversation. In that case though, it's best to specify so other folks and the mods know you're not talking about the chat.

    Happy to talk about this a bit more if you need to, but as you said it's not super relevant to this thread overall so probably best we do that via PM if so. :) That also means we can talk about a specific incident if needed.

    Mike & the team
  • JellyelephantJellyelephant Posts: 1,908 Extreme Poster
    Shaunie said:
    Jellyelephant said:
     imagine ur walking along and someone pushes you into a river, it’s not ur fault ur in their but it’s ur responsibility to try and get yourself out. Kinda same principle I suppose. 

    You also wouldn't then come out and push them into the river as well, to be horrible back ,with just the reason " I was provoked" lol. and then saying that it means less because they did it first. It's still the same thing and still wrong even tho maybe tempting- still wrong since they was wrong too & responsible for what do.

    I know - I wasn’t saying that. I think you have misunderstood the metaphor. It means that someone might do something that upsets you and it’s not ur fault ...... but you have to help yourself to feel better even though someone else triggered it. 
    The sun will rise and we will try again 
  • SienaSiena Posts: 15,681 Skive's The Limit
    edited August 2019
    Shaunie said:
    Jellyelephant said:
     imagine ur walking along and someone pushes you into a river, it’s not ur fault ur in their but it’s ur responsibility to try and get yourself out. Kinda same principle I suppose. 

    You also wouldn't then come out and push them into the river as well, to be horrible back ,with just the reason " I was provoked" lol. and then saying that it means less because they did it first. It's still the same thing and still wrong even tho maybe tempting- still wrong since they was wrong too & responsible for what do.

    I know - I wasn’t saying that. I think you have misunderstood the metaphor. It means that someone might do something that upsets you and it’s not ur fault ...... but you have to help yourself to feel better even though someone else triggered it. 
    I know sorry ah I understood  I was just saying different out come. 
    “And when they look at you, they won't see everything you've been through. They won't see the **** that turned to scars that began to fade with time. They won't see the heartbreaking things that shook up and changed your entire world. They won't know how many tears you cried or even what it was you were crying about. They won't see how strong you had to be because you had no other choice. What they will see though is how compassionate you are because you experienced pain. What they will see is how kind you are because you experienced how cruel the world is. What they will see is how good you are because you've seen how bad things or people can be. The difference between you and your experiences are who you choose to be, despite everything that could have turned you cold and unkind.You are the good the world needs and the best of us.” ~ Kirsten Corley
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,938 Extreme Poster
    I just thought of something else that I wanted to bring up. Discussing suicidal plans is rated at 5-9 points. I feel like someone reaching out for help when they're horribly hurting shouldn't be rated at intermediate-seriousness.

    The guidelines are tough really, I guess... It must be hard because you want to make sure everyone feels comfortable and that there's not triggering information, but at the same time, people will be struggling and fragile so you need to be caring and sensitive.

    Sorry again if I seem rude or bossy at all, I'm just concerned about people's feelings and how various things could affect them. The points system seems helpful, but it could already make someone feel bad for having a post edited, and I don't want anyone to feel accused with the points (I'm sure you don't either haha) :smile:
     
    If it helps at all, this is an example of how I might phrase the message if I was trying to be sensitive about it:

    "Hey (name),

    Just wanted to drop by to say we made an edit to a recent post of yours to remove this line *insert part that was removed*.

    That's because we have a guideline to not describe methods of self-harm, as it could sometimes be triggering :smile:      

    *insert amount of points* (But don't worry, we really don't want you to feel bad or accused - this is just a way of keeping track of how many times a member goes against the guidelines. You can read more on this over here if you want to).

    I'm sorry you're struggling so much, and if you have any questions on using the boards we're more than happy to help :heart:

    Take care,
    (mod's name) and the team"

    And not something like this that sounds less kind and more blunt and like the person did something wrong.

    "Hey (name),


    Just wanted to drop by to say we edited a recent post of yours to remove this line *insert part that was removed*


    That's because we have a guideline to not describe methods of self-harm, as that's triggering.


    *insert amount of points* (But don't worry too much about what you said).


    Let us know if you have any questions.


    Take care,

    (mod's name) and the team"

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