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That's still a parent providing for it's child. That's how they chose to raise they children, what right of it is your's to criticise? They aren't doing you any personal harm. You'll often find that these 'spoiled brats' will go further in life because they've been taught to demand respect.
Im entitled to my opinion just like you are...arent I :rolleyes:
Of course you are, I just don't see what your point is. They're able to raise their children a certain way, and you want to raise your child another way. So what?
I think people have a right to bring their children how they choose (within reason of course, I don't think a parent has a right to bring up their child as a criminal).
But if a child is taught that life is easy and that everything is handed to them on a plate then the child may believe that, which would be to their detriment in later life.
Oh sorry was I not making it clear?
We cant just say "I want" and expect to receive. what happens when these rich kids parents money runs out, they go bankrupt? who picks the pieces up for these kids then? all they know is that Mummy and Daddy will buy them anything they want and when theres no money............oh dear what happens then?
So it is petty jealousy. It started out as a discussion about people claiming benefits/living in council flats etc. and you turn it int a rant about the parenting skills of those more fortunate than yourself.
True... But doesn't that always happen? A kid who doesn't exactly get much, but isn't really poor will still expect a certain standard of living and when it's taken away they won't be able to cope. But just because they are rich then doesn't mean when it's taken away, it will feel any worse.
Let me tell you something, I am bringing my Daughter up how I was brought up which was that you cant just have everything, you need to work and save money, the money just does not come to you. I have seen me stoney broke and i mean broke when I first got a flat, I had no money for food etc but did i go running to Mummy and Daddy expecting them to hand me money on a plate? NO I got off my arse and got a job, I would never dream of asking my parents for money. If they knew i needed the money at that time they would have given me it without hesitation, but I have grown up to be a survivor. Ive survived allsorts, I get on with things and I have earned my money. I dont rely on anyone to help me out with money, im independent and im proud of that.........my Daughter will be brought up the same as I was which as far as im concerned is better than being a spoilt little brat who just expects Mummy and Daddy to bail them out all the time.
I have to say that I do not get your point. What if a middle class family suddenly loses the mother to cancer? It's harsh, and hard, but people learn to live on.
I am 17 years old, and have never worked in my life nor gotten any allowance. Only now am I beginning to think about the possibility of a job.
I know that I can depend on my parents, and that I'll get what I need and want within reason.
Simply my parents thinking that they'd rather let me be a kid, instead of starting to work when I hit 13 and having me focuse on school.
Doesn't mean that everything in my life has been served on a silverplate, or that I do whatever I want without limits.
To be honest I thought that it was common knowledge that everyone has problems in their lives. Being a rich kid or not, you won't go through life without any worries or dilemmas. We all grow up under different circumstances, and gain different personalities. I just don't get why it should bother anyone as long as the kid isn't out hurting others.
Good for you. You're right, that is something to be proud of. I have no issue with that.
What I do object to is that because the conversation was talking about people claiming benefits, you and a couple others tried to divert the conversation to the parenting skills of some wealthy people.
Ah now this is totally different.
At 17 I wouldnt expect you to have to work your still in education (I think) but the last bit of your post you can get what you want within reason, thats the difference. You have probably by the sounds of been brought up that you cant just say "I want" and you will receive, you sound as though you appreciate money and you wouldnt go asking your parents for something ridiculous and to me that is totally different from the ones Id class as *posh, little rich kids*
You do have values, these rich kids dont.
I didnt start it.....I just joined in
Sowry
I wasn't trying to fall out you personally. It's just you're the only one who stayed around to argue the point.
As said it's all relative. Some people feel the need to judge on the clothes I wear. Some by the fact that I don't work. etc.
I know rich kids you're speaking of, go to school with them, and I have to say that they get grief which isn't deserved. They get a computer and everybody jumps up on them. While it'd be perfectly normal for a regular kid to get it, as people assume that with a regular kid it's a one time occurance and the rich kid get's a new computer every other friday.
I have to agree with squat tom, a lot of the rich kids demand some sort of respect which regular kids don't. Some might percieve them as brats, though I've seen how such kids know how to get their goal, and fast, while people are still wondering about what they're on about.
Cos I only just got here an hour ago
Ok Im going to shut up now and get back on topic
err what was it about
Yeah I do and I usually find it makes a lot of sense. See this is something that I never get about people like you - you say life is just like that, deal with it - no defence of why it should be like that so obviously you would agree with me that it's wrong? Therefore why deal with it? Why not change it and make society more equal so everyone has a better chance in life? I find it obscene that someone on millions of pounds who thinks nothing of spending £2000 on a pair of shoes pays the same tax rate as an ordinary teacher or policeman, much less the people who would be lucky to earn £2000 in a year. That is my issue with wealthy people. So in effect you think that because you are giving money to the government you have the right to tell people who recieve government money how to live their lives? That sounds a lot like you're buying them, people on benefits aren't your commodity they're human beings who should enjoy the same rights as the rest of us if they're on benefits or not. Quite frankly I think people surviving on what remains of the welfare state could do a lot better without the ignorant mouthings off of people who have no comprehension of how little they have to survive on. The 'idle rich' are a burden on the country because whereas they could be working and being productive, contributing to income tax reciepts and increasing productivity, growth and GDP they do sod all.
You're stupid, period. There's no need to wrap it in in fine paper, and nice talk. You're simply clueless.
Actually many of those rich people are into medicine, technology etc. Many have their wealth from doing jobs as developing in their specific field, so they don't contribute? Fuck, they contribute. And big style.
And lets not mention different charities. Could be that some people say that it's all a play to show off, and get some good publicity, but fact is that a lot donate anonymously, and even if there is publicity behind it, in the end it does help.
I'm clever enough to the different between a woman's menstrual cycle and a piece of punctuation. My dear, Jacq I doubt you'd know what nice talk was if it came at you with subtitles. I also happen to have enough knowledge in what I'm saying so that I don't need to go on hysterical rants.
I don't have a problem with rich people, if you'd bothered to read my post properly you would have looked at my reference to the idle rich, as in the ones who don't have jobs but just live off other people's proceeds. If you'd looked at what I said, you'd find we were actually in agreement - if they are doing productive work and contributing to the economy then fine which is what I think we were both saying.
Incidentally, let's compare the peanuts they give to charity to the more substanial sums they avoid giving to the Inland Revenue through loopholes and offshore tax havens which could make a lot more difference. That would help a lot more than the crumbs they give to charity in an attempt to buy a clean conscience.
Either way I want numbers on the idle rich. The idles are probably the pensioneers and probably to some extent wives. Most people do not like to sit at home all day, and have nothing to do all day without anything to occupy their time.
I really do doubt that there are more people sitting at home cause of wealth, than people sitting at home claiming benefits.
Even if they do, who do they hurt? They are funding themselves.
And no, I wouldn't either call nice one of my most noticable traits. Hard to be when encountering mindless comments.
I've been on benefits before. The dole whilst I was looking for work and incapacity.
But how can you say that benefits shouldn't exist? People need money to survive, to pay rent, to eat and to have a social life. However. I see the point that people might make about people staying on the dole and not looking for work. Buuuut....
Well, as somebody who lives in Wrexham I've noticed how many factories are closing down to be moved abroad (cheap labour and whatnot) and there really is a shortage of jobs, especially for the older or unskilled members of the population. I mean most jobs around here are moving to the service industry which, might I add cannot compensate for the job losses when factories close down.
As for cutting benefits, what happens if you're too ill to work? I was on capacity for about 4 months a couple of years back and some people will never be able to work. Do you suggest cutting benefits for them too?
Oh... and the food voucher idea is good good
I agree that people should be encouraged to eat more healthily not only for their own life quality but for the sake of the NHS. However, the reasons why so many people and why these people tend to belong to the same social class, need to be realised and examined.
Unhealthy food is relatively inexpensive and can be bought in bulk at stupidly low prices (ie. Iceland etc.), so obviously if you're on low income you're going to buy such produce.
Certain areas have certain supermarkets at which certain foods will be plentiful, inexpensive and on offer. Or alternatively there may be a lack of big shops and choice in food. So obviously people's diets are going to be different.
Not everyone has access to the same level of education in this country and so therefore understanding of health and healthy eating will differ. It will also differ in priority. Some families just want food on the table and what it is becomes irrelevant.
As for people buying "luxury" items when they can't even feed their family properly, I don't think it's right to be too quick to judge. Many people see such items as a tool in making themselves appear more wealthy, more middle-class.....better than they feel, perhaps. Of course those who have such items, have always had them and take them forgranted (perhaps most people replying to this topic...we all have the internet and a computer.) would say "get your priorities sorted" etc. It's easy to become aggrevated at people who are on benefits and yet have tonnes of fags, alcohol etc. Why do people smoke? Because it was something to do or it helps in times of stress...Why do people drink and often become reliant? Because it becomes something to help them deal with their problems. For example if you had been living in a council flat in a rough area all your life with no qualifications because you went to a inner city school where no-one cared anymore and so can't get a decent job, wouldn't you be depressed? Most probably. And the cycle is always continued...just giving people benefits won't help break it, but neither will expecting them to rush out, get a job and turn their life around because life is not that easy.
Back to healthy food: They now have schemes in most primary schools (including a lot of inner city ones) where the children get free fruit. They have also started to increase education about healthy eating; eg. hands-on fruit sessions (but 6 year olds + mangoes + knives = chaos. My mum will vouch for that. Who designs lessons and plans? Not teachers.) Such education and introduction to healthy food at a young age is vital because it encourages the young children to like fruit etc. It also means that those from poorer families can find out what different fruit and vegetables look like - not all of them know. (Some children have never seen sheep before.) Educating people in general about healthy eating too - how about the government propose a campaign for healthy eating? Billboards, tv ads, posters, leaflets. Celebrities could be in them, like in America for milk.
So in conjuction with such advertising and education I think a voucher system could be used - although it seems a little pedantic to be telling people what to buy - children need nutrients.
As for the other argument that has dominated this thread:
I believe the richest people in this country do not pay enough tax. Some people have hundreds of millions, thousands of millions, do they really need such vast amounts? If you have a nice house, holidays, a car and savings for your future and your children's future, then why not give the surplus to the society that has served you so well?
Greed, image and materialism dominate our society....
(Apologies - it's late and I went off on an incoherent tangent then. I was going to elaborate on the last point but that would involve too much effort for 2am.)
in a fair society, everyone would contribute the same percentage of their earnings to taxation, to pay for the state. 10% of £10,000 or 10% of £1,000,000, for instance. Just because someone earns more money doenst mean they should give more of it away- why should I work my arse off, raise myself up from a working-class background, only to lose half my earnings every year to pay for things I disagree with?
Ill give you an economic lesson. High taxation DOES NOT WORK. When Lawson reduced high level income tax to 40% from 60% taxation takings frfom the richest 10% of the population went UP by 15%. It was similar when highest level tax went down to 60% from 80%- taxation makes people move their money to Jersey or Bermuda, low taxation makes people contribute theirt share.
I earn my money, I dont see why I should be taxed to the hilt to pay for people who dont work without a good reason. And as GWST says, I resent getting the bus to work through the two rough council estates near me to see every fuckiing house with a SKY dish on the wall...*I* cant afford SKY, yet by working Im paying for others to have it. *I* cant afford holidays, yet so many people on benefits manage to go to Tenerife or Ibiza every year.
You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Clearly your petty jealousy is giving you a very blinkered view.
You're as bad as the people who complain about 'Fat Cat salaries'. Why shouldn't people be paid a lot of money for the work that they do? Do have any idea what their work entails? Do you know what it is like to run a large multinational? That level of work requires a great deal of time and effort, and in return the person receives large financial compensation.
There is nothing wrong with that system. There should not be more equality. If your ambition in life exceeds no further than pushing a broom, then you cannot expect to be paid a great deal.
What is your real issue with the 'idle rich'? You clearly have a big problem with it as you keep bringing it up. As I see it they aren't doing any harm. So what if they don't work hard, they don't have to. Fact of life. They may not contribute anything to society in your eyes, but they're certainly not taking anything away. Private health care and private schooling come at nobody's cost but their own.
You go on and on about these issues, and claim that nobody every reads your posts properly. We do, but all you make is statements about how unfair life is, without any solid reasoning as to why it should be different.
GWST I would agree that you have the right to say how it should be funded and I would respect your decisions if you actually wanted to discuss how it should be funded. Unfortunately you just seem to rely on ignorant stereotypes to back up your arguments. I'd be very surprised if you actually knew any people on benefits aside from the ones you read about in the Daily Hate Mail or similar publication.
It all comes down to how people decide to budget their income, you could most probably afford Sky if it mattered to you that much instead you spend that money on something else. These people decide Sky is something they want so they budget for that - often it is the only bit of entertainment they can afford for their kids as council estates have very bad provisions of things to do for kids and they can't afford trips to the bowling alley or to the cinema. If they didn't have Sky you'd just be moaning about how the adults were drinking the money away in the pub and how the kids were roaming the streets.
At the end of the day you have no right to look down your middle class nose at these people just because they're on benefits and don't live as you say they should. You're at university, you will probably go on to a high paying job with perks and will have Sky and many other perks for the rest of your life and you begrudge these people £4 a week for a Sky box.
Let's start with one point: Not everyone wants to be rich and not everyone is jealous of people who are. What you're showing is that it seems rich people are greedy and have little concept of how hard life is for other people.
Life is unfair. Inequality is a huge problem in the world. Millions live in destitution whilst millions of others go about life in the best way possible. That is unfair. And it is unfair because it has been made so by the foreign policy of other countries and the world's inability to realise that infact we are all one human race and should be helping each other.
As for 'fat cat salaries', if you work at the top for a corporate company, you're bound to be on a high salary because the company makes so much profit. Doesn't mean they deserve it. Teachers and nurses put in a lot of time and effort - where's their financial reward?
How much money do people need?
The emphasise of classes is disgusting. Occuring all the time in these forums. You aren't helping anyone when doing it, simply trying to boast and feel proud of something which shouldn't be connected to pride in the first place.
No one should be proud of what class they belong to (I hate the fact that I am writing this. People should just be.), but what they have achieved.
Be happy with what you have, and enjoy it. If you aren't, then work to get to the state where you feel you've achieved happiness.
I do agree there is still emphasis on different classes(and sometimes too much), but that's because class inequality still exists.
I agree people should try and achieve what they can to make themselves happy, however not everyone starts in the same place and not everyone is exposed to the same opportunities.