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American Hypocrisy

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yep, we, US, got a Republic with a democratic form of government!

    Sometimes it really goes astray:
    http://www.borderlandnews.com/stories/borderland/20020107-166109.shtml

    And Randy Weaver can tell you all about it.

    Diesel

    88888888 <IMG alt="image" SRC="eek.gif" border="0">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Thanatos...AGAIN:
    <STRONG>

    Y'all care to define "democracy" and "republic" for those of us with a different level of education? <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0"> Democracy is generally held (on THIS side of the Atlantic) to be a system of government where decisions are made by everybody attending the meeting. Republic is a government where representatives make the laws. <IMG alt="image" SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

    But surely the fact that congress exists means that not everybody makes the decisions. You don't live in a democracy at all, a democracy by definition, like you said is where everyone decides or where people elect their reps. A republic has unelected reps who decide our fate.
    I don't recall your congress being elected? And your presidential elections are a joke anyway.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Thanatos...AGAIN:
    <STRONG>Y'all care to define "democracy" and "republic" for those of us with a different level of education? <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0"> Democracy is generally held (on THIS side of the Atlantic) to be a system of government where decisions are made by everybody attending the meeting. Republic is a government where representatives make the laws. <IMG alt="image" SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0"></STRONG>
    Either I'm being really thick or you are.

    You said it yourself: "Democracy.....decisions made by everyone attending the meeting. Republic.....representatives make the laws"
    Imagine this for a hypothetical situation: the people attending the meeting are the representatives.
    Bingo. A democratic government and also a republic.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish:
    <STRONG>
    Either I'm being really thick or you are.
    </STRONG>
    I could make a guess at which it is...

    <IMG alt="image" SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="tongue.gif" border="0">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How sodding hard can it be to understand the words "democracy" and "republic"? Oh, I remember, Greek and Latin went off the syllabus ages ago, and they haven't brought in History and Moral Philosophy yet.

    Democracy means that the government is identical to the citizenry. That is, all citizens are at least legislative if not executive members of government.

    "Republic" comes from res publica, the public business. That is, the government's business is the interest of the people, not self-interest. Hence, elected government, a.k.a. representative democracy.

    The USA can be variously described as a (representative) democracy, a federal union, a republic, a federal republic... All stemming from the fact that it's a union of largely independent states.

    And Congress not being elected? Wtf?!?!? Perhaps the Presidential elections get the headlines (and rightly so, 'cause letting the judiciary effectively select the executive is a travesty), but the Congress (both houses) is an elected body.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Whowhere:
    <STRONG>I don't recall your congress being elected? And your presidential elections are a joke anyway.</STRONG>

    Er....congressmen/women ARE elected officials, as are Senators. It is the UK who has appoint reps - the Lords.

    Perhaps I'd better explain what I meant when I said 'democracy'. I meant a representative government, where those reps are elected on a democratic basis (ie one person, one vote). Neither of our systems is truly 'deomcratic', with our first past the post system and the USs electoral college system, you can end up with a government where less than 50% of votes cast can still elect a government.

    Also worth noting that in the UK elections last year more people didn't vote at all, than actually voted Labour!

    And that's with ballot papers which are easy to understand <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent:
    <STRONG>Neither of our systems is truly 'democratic'......also worth noting that in the UK elections last year more people didn't vote at all, than actually voted Labour!</STRONG>
    Our system is democratic insofar as there is one person one vote, and our views are (supposedly) represented on our behalf by MPs in the Commons. The Lords serves a different purpose (and we have already discussed alternatives to the Lords on an earlier thread).
    I accept that f-p-t-p is not perfect but IMHO it is better than PR.
    Furthermore, public apathy is not the fault of the system of voting. It might well be the fault of uninspiring politicians who consistently fail to deliver on their promises....but not of the system itself.
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