equality for whites ??? where ?

Former Member

Members of the NF/BNP work with blacks in their days jobs as well.

Your rank point is a bit silly really...Im not arguing about segregation or discrimination in general but segregation based solely on skin colour.

Im sorry but I find it extremely hard to believe that you are arguing for anything more than arguings sake.

If a group of white policemen set up a white police officers association. They held meetings, social events, arranged benefits etc for its white members. If this group said that only whites could join and NO BLACKS at all were allowed in....Do you think that would be permitted? Do you think somebody would make the argument that they should be allowed to form such a group because they relate to each other? Or would they be labelled racist and denied from forming such a group in the police force?

I think we both know the answer.

Former Member

This is a very hard thing to argue about and respect goes out to those (from bothsides) that have kept it sweet.

Balddog,
Thats a good point about a white police officers asoc. I think all segregation/racism is crap, but is forming a black police offisers asoc. realy that bad? They (black police officers) don't have a strong voice on there own so what's wrong with forming a group, that they can use to colectivly voice their opinion?

What I do object to though is not alowing white officers to join (or sit in [if this is the case]) That is wrong.

(on a side point) a university that I recently visited had an Islamic group that openly encoraged non muslims etc. to sit in. Which is a very good idea IMHO

Former Member

They (black police officers) don't have a strong voice on there own so what's wrong with forming a group

Why does a single black officer have any less of a voice than a single white officer? I just cant see the need for it..

I honestly wouldnt have a problem with a black association if a) it didnt expressly ban whites and b) An equivalent white association were legally permitted.

Former Member

imagine you have two police forces, x and y. Force x has only one association for all races, where evrybody can go express and discuss any issues and reach conclusions, as well as socialise. Now force y has exclusive associations for all the different races where they discuss there own issues and socialise together. Which force is likely to have a better understanding of one another ? where is there likely to be less racial tension and in which is the minority voice most likely to be heard ? if you start having associations for all the minoritys within the police force such as fat people, ginger people, gay and lesbians then you are simply dismantaling the spirit of the force into different groups sitting in the corners sneering at each other, whereas we should be encouraging them all to be dancing as one, and therefore black associations aren't a good idea.

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drugs may be the road to nowhere, but at least there the scenic route

Former Member

Everyone would like force x. But you have to wake up to the real world, where there is hate and prejudice.
I don't think the principle of a black police officers committee is inherently wrong.
Perhaps when all police forces are based on the 'force x' approach, then there will be no need for a BPOcommittee. Fair enough.

I don't think I am arguing for arguing's sake. I hope I am presenting the argument for a BPOcommittee, even if in an ideal world there would be no need for such a group. And I hope you are not suggesting that black cops only socialise with black cops. I agree that would be segregatory, but I think (and hope) that it is not the case.

Equality is what I want, and if a minority group is abusing its position to personal gain, then I fundamentally disagree with the group's intentions. But that's not what the BPOcommittee is about.

ps Please learn the difference between 'there', 'their', and 'they're'.

Former Member

I don't think the principle of a black police officers committee is inherently wrong.

I think this is the fundamental thing we disagree on. I strongly believe that any kind of organisation based on nothing other than skin colour is a bad thing...For example, I wouldnt have a problem with an African police association made up of immigrants. At least something like that would have a basis in culture and upbringing.
The people we are talking about are almost all born and bred here in the UK and just happen to have darker skin.

And I hope you are not suggesting that black cops only socialise with black cops

Im sure they do socialise with the other plods, white or black some of the time but at times when the BPA say, they hang out with an exclusively black group and refuse to allow any whites in.

Maybe im wrong on this one but when I hear about stuff like this my mind automatically thinks of whites only beaches and whites only buses.

Former Member

Originally posted by Balddog:
Im sure they do socialise with the other plods, white or black some of the time but at times when the BPA say, they hang out with an exclusively black group and refuse to allow any whites in.

This seems to suggest a closed group of militant black police officers intent on division. That is not what the NBPA is about.

The following is the NBPA's mission statement:
"The National Black Police Association seeks to improve the working environment of Black staff by protecting the rights of those employed within the Police Service and to enhance racial harmony and the quality of service to the Black community of the United Kingdom. Thereby assisting the Police Service in delivering a fair and equitable service to all sections of the community."

Check out their website to see what they really represent.

Maybe im wrong on this one but when I hear about stuff like this my mind automatically thinks of whites only beaches and whites only buses.

Now that is a bit of an over-exaggeration. The NBPA campaigns for equality and understanding, which is quite the opposite of white-only buses/beaches.

Former Member

Well the NBPA here in the UK actually seem to have honourable intentions but even so, it still causes racial division.

It specifically excludes whites. Now I always thought that if you were looking to increase harmony between two groups of people then you should have representatives from both those groups of people rather than just one.

Youve made a good argument but it all comes down to one thing for me. If the roles were reversed would it be thought of as racist? The answer is a definate yes.

Former Member

I see what you're saying Baldy, but is it possible to say that the NBPA actually CAUSES racial division or is it's existence just a symptom of racial division.
Who knows?

But banning the NBPA now would certainly cause racial tension in the police. Maybe, as you say, it's meetings should be open to all, black or white.

Former Member

I agree with that the meetings should be open to all