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equality for whites ??? where ?
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
Does anybody else here get p****d off at thing such as 'music of black origin awards' ? now correct me if i'm wrong but would a 'music of white origin award' be absolutley castrated ? how can we expect to treat all as equal, with such a grand, public display of racially selective ceremonies ? what next 'best beard of pro taliban awards' ? worst behaved illegal immigrant awards ? Now i don't consider myself a racist, but i think if were all honest, right now there is an amount of racial tension that is impossible to ignore, especially having just read threads on pro taliban demonstrations and racist attacks, and we only have to look back to the summers riots in bradford and oldham to confirm this, so awards type schemes which exclude whites, simply isn't helping the cause of ethninc minorities and therefore should be banned.
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pecethingy
no, it would just be shit - Country music, punk, and classical - if you want to start up an award ceremony for that music and can get those different genres together then fine, it's not racist.
the fact is that just about all decent music is of black origin, jazz, house, soul, even rock & roll was first played by blacks in America.
However...It does irk me a little that an equivalent white music award ceremony would stir up screams of racism.
Al, I think you know full well that it would be called racist by a myriad of 'black community leaders'.
Calling it music of black origin is a little unfair as well. You cant deny it was heavily influenced by whites...I dont see much more than tribal beats coming out of Africa..
I really don't believe there would be an issue with race over a MOWO awards - it would just be pretty dull.
As to the name MOBO - the music is of black origin - so why not call it that?
Well, I can deny that it was heavily influenced by whites - these genres of music came from the black communities and were only picked up on by whites years later... And who said anything about Africa?
Maybe I shouldnt have said their music was heavily influenced but theres no question that the current MOBO has been influenced by the white american culture.
I mentioned Africa because its a good example. America with its black and white mix comes up with this great music and africa with its massive majority of blacks doesnt come up with great music.
yes, unfortunately that culture is money
Well, there's a whole load of people that would argue about that last point. Unfortunately I don't know much about african music, but there's a whole lot more to it than just tribal drums - ever heard of Fela Kuti? Just because you haven't heard it , doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Try searching for 'Kwaito' to see what new styles of music Africa is generating now..
Dont get me wrong here. Im not having a go at African music. Im sure lots of it is really beautiful stuff but its not considered great music by the people that matter. Its not popular and therefore not 'good'.
What utter tosh! I can't believe you wrote that, I had at least a modicum of respect for you at one point, but to say that just because something isn't popular in this country it isn't any good is just ridiculous! All it means is it's not promoted here - you do realise that don't you?
And who are these mysterious 'people that matter' - Chris Evans and Steve Wright?
Your argument seems to be that "It's not in the charts so it can't be any good" - unless you'd like to correct me on that.
You say yourself that you haven't heard any african music - so how can you pass judgement on it?
Come on BD - I thought you could do better than this!
If you take a look at my post you will see that I put the word good in quotation marks. Both the record industry and the population at large judge music as 'good' by its popularity.
So why isnt it promoted here? Could it be because that kind of music doesnt have popular appeal and therefore wouldnt sell? Something that doesnt sell cannot be classified as 'good'
The people that matter are the buying public, you and me. The record industry, the promotors..DJs play whats popular in the eyes of their listeners. They dont dictate what we like.
Thats exactly my argument. We are talking about the MOBO awards here. Take a look at the winners of these awards..Are they obscure groups never heard of by the average Brit? See the winners here
I said I hadnt heard of any decent African music, not I hadnt heard any African music.
But because they're not being promoted over here, does that mean they're not 'good'
To promote an overseas band needs a lot of money - to spend a lot of money a record company is going to want an almost certain hit. These bands certainly aren't going to be commercial hits but does that mean their music isn't any good?
As to the DJs - well, there's a lot of DJs that play African music; Ashley Beadle and Gilles Peterson being two of the most prominent.
I think my point has got lost somewhere along the way and now it's twofold.
1) There's nothing racist about the MOBOs, it's a recognition that modern music has its roots in black culture
2) Good music does come out of Africa - and there's a lot more depth to it than just 'tribal drums'
We will have to agree to disagree on this one. It all depends on your definition of good is. Im sure morris dancing folk tunes are classed as good by someone but they arent 'good' in the eyes of the public and record companies.
Youre right, theres nothing racist about the MOBOs..Whats racist is the fact that a similar white music awards, however crap it may be, would be vilified.
If you can provide quotes or any some kind of evidence for that statement then I will shush, but I think you're wrong. <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/tongue.gif">
-edit to stick my tongue out at BD like the mature chap I am
[This message has been edited by al (edited 13-11-2001).]
The MOBOs do not exclude whites. White people have won MOBO awards.
Do you understand?
The MOBOs recognise that most of the music you listen to is of black origin
Do you want me to repeat the salient points again, Teletubbies style, so that it sinks in?
The MOBOs do not exclude whites. White people have won MOBO awards.
I'll post it again if I have to...
I know the the MOBO awards arent racist but they bring up an interesting issue.
What do you think of organisations such as the Black police association? These groups are exclusive. Do you think there would be any kind of uproar if a white police officers association were set up and excluded black plods?
Now there's an interesting point. There's a 'south east asian' society at my uni and I am absolutely certain that a 'white english' society would be attacked as racist.
BUT, because black police officers are under-represented in most, if not all, police forces I think it is important that they are represented so as to encourage more minorities into the police. That way there is likely to be less animosity between minority groups in society and the police in general.
AND, although I agree with the people that have said black music has influenced most genres, the reason there are no MOWO awards, is because most music is MOWO and therefore there is no reason for a MOWO award when we already have Emmys and MTV awards etc.
So the best way to assert themselves is to segregate themselves from the rest of the police force? Any group, black or white, that discriminates based on nothing more than race is extremely divisive and will do nothing but cause trouble between the groups.
Good point but why do they feel the need to set themselves apart from the rest of the music world? Why cant music just be music? Setting something aside as black music or white music seems stupid to me..Its just music.
And finally, after all this time we get to the point. What makes it music of BLACK origin? Why isn't it just music? WHy is there a need for separate awards - are the genres represented not covered at the Brits/Grammys (who said Emmys?) and MTV Awards (to name a few) - or is it just another coy marketing ploy?
As for 'good' music being the popular music I will just mention New Kids on the Block, Spice Bores, Take That, Bros etc etc
There is plenty of good African music out there - you only need to listen to Paul Simon's Graceland to see the influences. To write it off just because the British Music Industry is blinkered is wrong, BD, and you know it.
However, I do agree that the MOBO promote racism, even if they don't realise it. When you segregate you promote differences - wasn't segregation wrong in the 60s South?
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MoK, I said Emmys. What are the Emmys then?!
Again, im not writing it off. It may well be seen as good by some people..but only 'some' people. Not many and certainly not enough to win it a MOBO award. How many African artists have won awards? By African I dont mean black or westernised Africans(SA etc).
Sorry but all segregation based on race is a very bad thing. True segregation? So a little bit of racial segregation is ok?
Its not just a committee to represent their views. Its an organisation with lots of members. How about student groups, you pointed one out at your uni. Now in America this is much more widespread with Afrcian American groups left right and centre. They hold meetings, discussion groups, workshops, outings, social events etc and if you aint black you aint joining.
I cant see why they feel the need to distance themselves from everyone else. It seems very odd to me that theres been such a massive fight for civil rights and to get rid of racist discrimination over the years and yet when theyve almost got rid of it they implement it themselves.
A black police officers' committee is NOT segregation, it is a forum for the representation of black police officers' views and ideas. It does not promote the separation of blacks&whites from duties or principles of policing.
The need arises because they are a minority. I don't know what that feels like because I have never been a minority group. But I know for sure that if I was on my own, I would want a group I could relate to, since certain people on theSite make it perfectly clear that they will only tolerate people from their own social/economic/cultural/religious background.
[This message has been edited by Kentish Man (edited 20-11-2001).]
Are white police officers banned from joining?. Yes they are, case closed its segregation. Its also not just a commitee, they have social events and meetings etc. All with the total exclusion of whites.
The BNP of today dont argue that blacks are lesser people. They argue that they are different and that whites should stay with whites. Tell me again why they are any different to groups that exclude whites just because of the colour of their skin.
Sorry but I just dont buy that...Just how different is a black guy from a white guy? Skin colour and nothing else..Its not as though they are a different species or have a different upbringing(talking about brits here). I just dont see that blacks are so different as to not be able to 'relate' to whites.
Bottom line...If any group discriminates solely on the basis of skin pigmentation then thats wrong. Black or white, its wrong and does nothing but cause more trouble.
Intent
You and I know that, but as I said, certain people at theSite clearly don't
Evidently
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