God

Former Member

Originally posted by *Angelic*
Speak of the devil!! That was the youth group leader on the phone. I know this is away from the topic (sorry) but how do I get away from these people (preferably without a confrontation!)

walk away, change your phone number, don't go, tell them your faith is weak and you need some time out to think things through, ask them to respect your decisions, that you feel uncomfortable with the way they do things, let it slip that you were so drunk you took part in an orgy, I don't know, churches are used to people not turning up, falling away, they will get over it.

Former Member

Thanks! I'm trying to go less and less but they keep phoning. I stay with my folks and can't change my phone number or move without ending up homeless. I may have to be brave and do like you said and explain why I don't want to be part of their church anymore. Thanks again:)

Former Member

Originally posted by *Angelic*
Thanks! I'm trying to go less and less but they keep phoning. I stay with my folks and can't change my phone number or move without ending up homeless. I may have to be brave and do like you said and explain why I don't want to be part of their church anymore. Thanks again:)

just tell them it's over. your no longer interested. piss off. tell them you'll get the police involved if they don't leave you alone and the local paper.

Former Member

:yes:
Do that, just tell them to get the fuck away, end of story. Stand up to them.

Former Member

I'm Pagan, I believe in a Godess and a God. Why? I dunno, the religion suits me. I am closer to the Godess though.

Former Member

What Godess and God do u believe in?

Former Member

Originally posted by Shogun2002
What Godess and God do u believe in?

I'm fairly new to paganism (although I've been interested in divination, healing a spirits since I were about 13). In answer to your question, the Goddess has many names as does the horned God (and no it's not satan in case anybody's wondering). A few names for the goddess include Cerridwen, Isis and Dione depending on which way you worship. The God can be known as Herne or Cernunnos to the celts or Pan in Greece.

I'm a believer in a divine which is like an energy, polarised with the masculine and feminine poles. I'm studying wicca & witchcraft at home currently, but consider myself a pagan. Went to a pagan moot tonight ^_^ lotsa fun.

Former Member

Thanks people for all your advice. Creeper, my sister is an ecclectic pagan (meaning she doesn't follow one particular path) and also a solitary wiccan practitioner. She says the best book to read is Starhawk - the spiral dance. I think thats what its called anyway!! There are so many wiccan and pagan paths that its very easy to find something that suits you.

Former Member

Originally posted by The Icy Aphrodite
i believe in God, i was brought up muslim however i do not actively practise my religion (very often). the point made earlier about science and religion being slightly separate is however in my opinion slightly different as many things mentioned in the qur'an (muslim holy book written nearly 1500years ago) is still being found out today by scientists. one example is the fetal development in the womb which believe it or not is explained fully in there. i do not however agree with extremists or ppl who condemn others for their lack of religious practise because in the end its got nowt to do with them...its just urself and God.[/SIZE]

See http://195.194.49.4/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37322&perpage=15&pagenumber=1 with regards to Aisha's comments on this subject ... she and I tended to disagree on the accuracy of the Koran in general (not that it is neccessarily any less accurate than any other holy book) ... and the feotal development claim in particular.

"Regarding "How did Muhammad know about Embryology?". What about The Quran's highly controversial statement that human beings are formed from a clot of blood. "Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then We made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh" (23:14). This is hardly a scientific description of embryonic development. It ignores to mention the female egg (the second and equally important half) and the process of fertilization when egg and sperm unite to form one new cell. It mentions the obvious [the sperm], the visible, that which all mankind knew for a long time that it is necessary to "make" a baby. The Qur'an does NOT mention the invisible, that which we know only through modern medicine. Had God really wanted to reveal something nobody could know at that time, in order to prove the divine origin of his revelation, he would have talked e.g. about the "equal contribution of the female through the ovum to form the new person and how the two come together and form one being".

She hasnt come back since ... doh!

Former Member

Originally posted by Creeper
I'm fairly new to paganism (although I've been interested in divination, healing a spirits since I were about 13). In answer to your question, the Goddess has many names as does the horned God (and no it's not satan in case anybody's wondering). A few names for the goddess include Cerridwen, Isis and Dione depending on which way you worship. The God can be known as Herne or Cernunnos to the celts or Pan in Greece.

I'm a believer in a divine which is like an energy, polarised with the masculine and feminine poles. I'm studying wicca & witchcraft at home currently, but consider myself a pagan. Went to a pagan moot tonight ^_^ lotsa fun.

Oh rite, i was thinking about Greek Gods surrounding around Zeus and others, never heard of them Gods and Godesses before.

Former Member

From the Chambers's Twentieth Centuary Dictionary Pagan - n. a heathen: one who is no a Christian, Jew or Mohammedan

Paganism is a term which emcompasses many religions, the name 'pagan' coming from the Latin word paganus . It's basically a term used to describe all pre-Christian religions that are centered around earth and nature.

*Angelic*, is your sister a hedgewitch then? That's what I'm studying at the moment and believe that it's something at appeals to me. Personally I'm drawn towards the healing side of wicca, especially the Goddess. I'm also in to divination, the spiritual world and have always had an interest in aromatherapy and natural remedies.

Apparently there was a program on Kilroy celebrating the Summer Solstice (where the horned God is at his strongest) and it had a real bias against paganism, branding it as a devil-worshipping religion. But if there's no heaven and hell and people are responsible for their own actions instead of being tempted by the devil... how does that work?

It's irritating how people are so small minded sometimes.

Former Member

No she just a pagan (of non specific path) but she uses some wiccan influences. She used to be into Wicca, but found she prefers paganism. I think lots of women are drawn to paganism because they feel they can relate to the Goddess and feel that a representative of women is lacking in other mainstream religions. Catholicism hold Mary as very important, and you are able to pray to her, or ask any saint you feel comfortable with to pray with you, if you don't feel able to talk to God or Jesus directly. I tend to pray to Mary when I am dealing with something that is mostly an issue for women; childbirth, pregnancy, rape etc

Former Member

Yup. Paganism appeals to me in many ways.

1. No concept of heaven and hell, no satan or God in the form that many mainstream religions hold. There is good and evil, but evil has nowt to do with Satan, it's the individual's own choice whether they want to commit an evil act. Thus we have Karma, or the three fold rule. What you give out comes back to you.
2. The feminine divine/tripple godess works with the horned god (I like the names Cerridwen and Cernunos), one cannot exist without the other and both the masculine and feminine divine exists within every person. This promotes totally equality between genders, race, sexuality and religion.
3. The earth is emphasised as the centre of the religion. Respect the earth because it is from where we came. There is a miscomception that pagans sacrifice people or animals. Most pagans have too much respect for life to do that.

It's really healing, divination and one with nature that attracts me too. It's nice to be spiritual in one way or another, very comforting.

Former Member

No concept of heaven and hell, no satan or God in the form that many mainstream religions hold. There is good and evil, but evil has nowt to do with Satan, it's the individual's own choice whether they want to commit an evil act. Thus we have Karma, or the three fold rule. What you give out comes back to you.

So how is good or evil defined in this context?

Former Member

There's no sin. It's based around karma, so if you do summat nasty, it'll come back to you.

Former Member

And what is defined as 'nasty'? That was my point.

One reason I don't like religion is that it promotes an objectivist vision of morality.

Former Member

Originally posted by monocrat
And what is defined as 'nasty'?

i believe most humans have developed a pretty good understanding of whats nasty and whats not. what's acceptable and what isn't. no it can never be a total and clear and agreed acceptability. it is not an agenda it is an understanding that seperates us from all other creatures.

Former Member

Well that was my point.

Religions all offer an absolute moral code. Is morality really so objective?

Former Member

Originally posted by monocrat
Well that was my point.

Religions all offer an absolute moral code. Is morality really so objective?

i know what you mean ...all the 'thou shalt not' kind of stuff. but again the laying down of rules and guidlines can only be good. it's the flexibility or lack of that seems to ruin organised religion. in the past there seems to have been little, 'understanding' and tolerance within those guidlines. religion has therefore sown the seeds of it's own destruction.

Former Member

I don't know about paganism, but in Wicca the rule is "harm none". So intentionally doing something that you know (or hope!) will cause harm to another person will be breaking this rule. As to "set in stone" morals, even Christians do a bit of pick'n mix.... the bible says divorce is wrong, but most chuches no longer preach this while holding on to beliefs about gay people, even though many of the commands set out in Leviticus and Deutronomy (sp?) are now not observed by the Christian church, such as eating kosher meat and stoning disobediant sons!

Former Member

I believe in God and feel it adds another dimension to my life, makes me not jealous of what people have and feel death is less of a loss.

I also feel, in general, people with a strong belief in God have killed more people worldwide than any non-believing group of people ever have.

Ironic ain't it?:p

Former Member

Although there have been some notable atheists who have made serious strides toward balancing that disparity...

Stalin and Mao spring to mind.

Former Member

True. The freak'n communists are always at it. Look at Article whatever in Hong Kong and the 200,000 protesting it. Glad the EU and America, among others have come out against Article whatever...think it's 23.

Former Member

We're going off topic (sorry) but what is this Article 23 thing?

Former Member

I'll post a new thread on it so we don't wreak the "God" thread.

Former Member

Originally posted by monocrat
So how is good or evil defined in this context?

well with karma its fairly self explanitory. what you give comes back to you. good or bad. theres no laws to say wahts good or bad simply that how you act comes back to you. so you treat other people how you yourself would like to be treated.

Former Member

Lets hope a flood of Karma comes back on the Bush admin! lol.

Former Member

Originally posted by octopus of doom
so you treat other people how you yourself would like to be treated.

A redundant notion.

Former Member

Originally posted by monocrat
And what is defined as 'nasty'? That was my point.

One reason I don't like religion is that it promotes an objectivist vision of morality.

I meant the rule of three, whatever you put out comes back to you. So if you do something with bad intentions, it'll come back times three.

don't know about paganism, but in Wicca the rule is "harm none".

"If it harm non, do as thou will" is taken from the Wiccan Rede, which basically means that you shouldn't use your freedom of will to hurt others intentionally. Wicca is all about positive thinking and the like...

Former Member

Originally posted by monocrat
A redundant notion.

how so?