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The American Way?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I, for one, am sick and tired of the debates on issues which are independent being turned in to skirmishes over the dominance of the Americans against the British.
I say enough is enough.
Let us leave the UK/US issues out of our debates. Let us debate political issues with rational, logical and cogent thought.
If we want to do the UK/US thing, then let us do it here and now. Let us debate this issue.
However. Let's get couple of things straight first.
(1) Let's not degenerate to name calling. That means no "sheep" comments, or anything like that. If you want a debate, we'll give you a debate, without referring to you personally.
(2) Let's not bring guns in to it.
(3) All debate is to be taken on the chin, and not personally.
If we can't all accept that, then I'll delete the post. And when I do, the thread will close. I don't want the Moderators to have to step in as if between small children bickering in playground.
Let's start with a nice, gentle introduction. Would an American kindly like to begin, and explain to us why the American Way is the ideal way?
I say enough is enough.
Let us leave the UK/US issues out of our debates. Let us debate political issues with rational, logical and cogent thought.
If we want to do the UK/US thing, then let us do it here and now. Let us debate this issue.
However. Let's get couple of things straight first.
(1) Let's not degenerate to name calling. That means no "sheep" comments, or anything like that. If you want a debate, we'll give you a debate, without referring to you personally.
(2) Let's not bring guns in to it.
(3) All debate is to be taken on the chin, and not personally.
If we can't all accept that, then I'll delete the post. And when I do, the thread will close. I don't want the Moderators to have to step in as if between small children bickering in playground.
Let's start with a nice, gentle introduction. Would an American kindly like to begin, and explain to us why the American Way is the ideal way?
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Comments
Oh, and your buildings are too big.
I hope they see the sense to your post too.
*ahem*
BUT, to be fair, they do live in a very big country whereas the UK is more manageable in terms of geography. And I should think most English kids would struggle to place Albania, for example, on a map of Europe.
George W Bush was quizzed wasn't he when he first came to power? And he couldn't name some quite high-profile world leaders, and didn't know where some countries were on the map. Ignorance or arrogance?
Not talk about guns in relation to political issues...that is really a hard one. You see guns are what we use to hold our government hostage to the people...doesn't always work but sounds good.
Try to take note that we discuss guns in a political framework...not in a shooters/collectors bbs foremat where we go into lenthly detail about mechanics, caliber...etc., etc., etc.
Being an honest person I just don't know whether we can take guns out of our conversations...for the above and obvious reasons. Do you have an inordinate or unnatural fear of guns...or weapons in general? Froid had some things to say on 'that' subject, I'll leave it alone as a courtesy.
I would personally hate to see this forum get too bland and boring...make it too politically correct and all that. We really don't come here to insult you...we are after visiting in your home though sometimes things are said or taken differently than ment. (I once said 'wog' here and the uproar was remarkable...and the comment was totally innocent...soooooo!
Anyway, there are some things to share back and forth...keeping in mind always the difference between subject and citizen.
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I don't think I could even position all our counties on a map, and I am usually very good at that kind of useless information.
I'm a American student of international relations, so I can't say that I speak for all Americans....but I'll give you my perception of the general feeling.
I also don't think that the "American way" is the ideal way ( a lot of the time it is wrong), it's just a different way.
Americans in general feel removed from the rest of the world. Unlike Europeans, it isn't easy to travel to many diferrent countries (you can't hop in your car and drive) and many have never been out of the US so its hard for them to look at things from other perspectives, despite the fact that the US is so diverse in ethnic backgrounds. (Especially those who live in rural areas)Educated, urban Americans usually feel a little more cosmopolitan about these things.
I'm not really sure if you are referring to the "American way" as talking about American foreign policy or to our domestic politics....
One perception that is definitely correct is that we are a nation of aggressive, violent people. Mediation or use of non-violent ways to resolve international disputes doesn't fly in America. If Bush did not respond to the WTC attacks by using force, he would have NO chance of being reelected, the people wouldn't stand for it.
Domestically, Americans have a real problem with authority, they don't like being told what to do even if it is good advice. That's why we don't have social democracy, it means having to follow what the majority of the people believe, even if it is vastly different than what you believe. The "we" over the "I" is not really popular. But, then again, we have a lot of freedom of choice and opportunity because of this. Laws for the good of everyone restrict the rights of the individual.
Whowhere, I only disagree with one of your perceptions of Americans, that we are falsely friendly. I don't know where you visited in the US, (if it was L.A. you probably would be right), but for the most part Americans secretly love the British. The British kids who go to my school get ridiculous amounts of play because of the positive image of you guys here. Probably the people you met were excited to meet you and came across as a little too friendly. (We aren't exactly the most reserved people in the world)
Oh yeah, and you drive on the wrong side of the road. <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
I'm not going to bring guns into this discussion, but I really think it is a major factor.
Can't help as far as the sheep comment..
What is so great about America? Its ours. What is so great about your Nation? Same thing, its yours...
I see others here from other nations. I hope they have the same pride of ownership in their Nation as I do in mine...
My usual advice to one that dislikes his nation and lacks that feeling that his is special??
Is immigrate to another..
Guns?
Guns are on naval ships and in artillery units.. Civilians own firearms.. <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0">
Well, if some here would quit telling us not to own them? We'd probably never bring up firearms..
As a side bar? I am curious to what is happening in GB. Firearms are illegal, yet there are so many in use by the criminals in the past few years..
Sold on the streets. A used in a crime firearm is the cheapest and a clean of crime firearm is the most costly.
Perhaps a subject for another thread..
American people do not exhibit false friendliness.. Being nice in public or the work place is not an offer of friendship. Just politeness.
To all
Do me a large favor?
Do not judge me by the few americans that you know or have met.. I will extend the same courtesy to you..
BTW-
Does the Sun still have a Page 3?? <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
I try to remember what I enjoyed about a nation.. I enjoyed the Sun's Page 3's..
[ 19-01-2002: Message edited by: reverse ]
I am also confused what you mean DJP when you ask why Americans think that our way is the ideal way? What do you mean when you say our way? As Alex pointed out, I am confused whether you mean domestic or foreign policy on this one.
It is easy for us to forget about the rest of the world until something happens that directly affects us. Americans tend to stereotype Mexico as a completley drug-infested country intent on polluting our way of life, while Canada becomes an additional state. All this to say, yes, most Americans are ignorant of the rest of the world but this is largely due to the amount of space, people, problems, and interest that can be found within the country itself without looking other places.
This is probably making NO sense right now since it's almost 3 in the morning and I just can't sleep. But there are some of my tired ramblings.
Oh- sorry- another thought, WhoWhere- I did experience the same kind of "false friendliness" you describe when I first moved to the south. But once you get used to it you realize that it's not as "false" as it seems to be at first. It's the way that everyone is and it's viewed as normal. People are more exuberant about their feelings and the southern ettiquate and hospitality still applies. You get used to it though and I have come to appreciate it and miss it now that I'm in the UK. <IMG alt="image" SRC="frown.gif" border="0">
Yep, that IS being fair. Quite.
Ever compare the area of the United States to that of Europe? Puts things in a slightly different perspective. <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0">
But I don't think that should be an excuse. One out of 7 not knowing where your own country is? What does that say about us?
Diesel
88888888 <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
But you are right in the fact that too many of our highschool graduates are stupid. Just take the good with the bad. We have vastly larger amounts of sheep than you do, just look at the political swing after 9/11
When I mentioned false friendliness, i found it whenever we vistied anywhere in Florida. The whole "have a nice day" thing, didn't wash with me, as i could tell it wasn't genuine friendliness, or even genuine politeness.
You will find that in the UK, if someone is being polite then they mean it, if they don't want to be friendly then they won't be, job be damned! I get a lot of it at work when I'm in a bad mood "come on steve, SMILE". it is quite annoying having to grin like an idiot when I don't want to.
The rest of the world describes that British trait as "cynical" and "rude", but since you find it appealing, enjoy. Doesn't surprise me that the Americans don't want to be like the English...
If I want to visit my mother I get into the car and drive 1,500 miles to her house...visit & drive home...and it could be much worse. She could live in NYC or up in Alaska.
And throw in some wild life hazards...animal and human and you have the American trip.
<IMG alt="image" SRC="eek.gif" border="0">
You would also be shocked if you saw some of what I was referring to as false friendliness. My mom isn't the biggest fan of people touching her she doesn't really know and had a really hard time that people greet each other with a hug, even if you're not really great friends. Personally, I enjoy the show of affection...
Sorry this is a bit off topic... and we really do love the English in the States. (Granted the majority of us have a hard time distinguishing the English, Scottish, Irish and Australian accents apart... but that's another issue)
Ah.
That would be the UK, then.
UK 1-0 USA.
So, as is my way, I would like to stir things up a bit. I know this is old, but the sentiment behind it is timeless, and we have not yet shifted paradigm.
(Will wait while those are looked up)
Right;
NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE
To the citizens of the United States of America;
In the light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy. Your new Prime Minister (The Rt. Hon. Tony Blair, MP for the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware that there is a world outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America without the need for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed. To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:
1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary. Then look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary". Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up "interspersed".
2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know on your behalf.
3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents. It really isn't that hard.
4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as the good guys.
5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save the Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you to get confused and give up half way through.
6. You should stop playing American "football". There is only one kind of football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good game. The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your borders may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It is a difficult game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like nancies). We are hoping to get together at least a US rugby sevens side by 2005.
7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using nuclear weapons if they give you any merde. The 98.85% of you who were not aware that there is a world outside your borders should count yourselves lucky. The Russians have never been the bad guys. "Merde" is French for "sh*t".
8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 8th will be a new national holiday, but only in England. It will be called "Indecisive Day".
9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean.
10. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.
Thank you for your co-operation.
The Government of Her Britannic Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.
Oh. And.
"Freud".
"Format"
"Colour"
Centre, RE, NOT ER.
Thanks. Have a nice day, y'all.
You might want to check those as well.
[ 20-01-2002: Message edited by: DJP ]
Very good DJP. I only hope the yanks will have enough appreciation of the English sense of humour to realise its comical nature, before threatening to come over to 'the ol' pirate kingdom' and slaughter us with their AK-47.
btw, I think you meant 'prerogative' and not 'perjorative' (which, incidentally, is spelt 'pejorative'). *is not a pedant, honest*
Actually, the funny thing is that the UK will probably be comming under the US's wing as MI5 and MI6 cannot function independantly very well (not that there is anything wrong with your intel, but just to closely tied to the US's)
British would have to be the good guys in real life first. Hollywood can only streach reality so far! <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
#5 never was, never will be. Start learning the Star Spangleld Banner, or the Frenchies national anthem, your choice!!! <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0">
#6 We do play "Soccer" and Rugby, althought the attention isn't the same. I seem to think the US does pretty well at your verion of football.
#9 and yet nothing is said about British Cars? Wonder why?...
#10 A French Mob organization, hired by the conservitives, upset over JFK convincing DeGaul to give up colonies. There I said it.
I know how to speak, thankyou. Just because the stereotypes you see and hear don't. I bet you all have bad teeth too? And Sh!tty hair cuts?
enough said.
Kentish, we would never do that
<IMG alt="image" SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
The issue weapon for the military is a derivative of the M16... Civilians frequently favor the AK-47 or AK-74. BUT... that would mean we would have to pay our own plane fare...
Aware of the latter, BUT... the former can lead to a brawl over-here where divergent preferences are enough for a fistfight (bbs version)... <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0">
Awww... 'n' ah wud be SOO happy ta edjicate'cha! <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0">
We all use German and French cars anyway. Although that stupid chrysler voyager that looks like it was built in the 1950's is on the roads now.