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Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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USA is bad mmmmkay?
Those who opposed them on Iraq are good. That those countries may have been supporting an oppressive regime in direct contravention of UNSC resolutions is irrelevant.
Yes, they are. But then so is the UK, Iraq, France, Germany, Russia, etc through every country on the face of the Earth. International politics is about being as self interested as possible while still trying to claim the moral high ground. Governments are composed of politicians, and politicians will in general lie, cheat, steal, be hypocritical and resort to soundbite politics as long as they think it is their best interests to do so (their entire careers, presuming they don't get caught. Nothing is illegal if you don't get caught doing it).
Actually, most of these points could be levelled at governments based on the fact that they are composed of humans, who will, as a general rule, lie, cheat, steal, be hypocritical and distort facts to support their own personal biases on any issue (and everyone is biased one way or another). Pretty much everyone does, regardless of their position within the political spectrum.
The reality, I feel is, Europe has become too socialist to be profitable for companies. So their economies are barely growing or failing. In many ways, America let's the companies get away with too much. So I don't know what the answer is. But the result of Europe's failing economies are these dirty deals with the worst of the worst in the world.
Greenhat, I wish you were in America to experience the pride right now. (I was always that way...but the country as a whole is really healed and soooo determined.)
Documents
Add these to the links in the first post, and you might see why people feel justified in writing this
The radical Muslim movement in the world must be attacked head on regardless of what anyone in the world thinks. Those who would be willing to join a tolerant, modern, democracy would be welcome. Those who won't need to be killed....without trials. Just kill them.
Just thought I'd remind you
Aladdin,
You have no idea. None whatsoever.
Complicit with the notion of "terrorist" in the Bush doctrine is any person or state who/which dares oppose the absolute will of Washington. Such is the underlying precept of the PR campaign with which theyve been numbing minds since just after 9/11.
It's all about Pax Americana Al, you should realise that by now.
Really?
Let's see...
Shutting down terrorist training camps, and safe areas
Removing a significant source of terrorist supplies and funding
Removal of high-ranking and very well-known terrorists
You don't have a clue what it means to wage a war on terrorism, do you?
Actually, based on numerous posts from you, you don't have a clue what it means to wage war in any circumstances.
Clandestine,
Come now, tell us again about how the German objections... you were the one who was telling us all about how Schroeder was a man of principles, weren't you? Such principles that included providing material, intelligence and training aid to Iraq under Saddam Hussein.
Pax America? Maybe more exact would be avoiding Pax Europa led by France, Germany and Russia.
Please give me a Euro for every terrorist camp and dodgy lab that will be in place a couple of weeks after coalition troops leave. Some war on terror…
You should really give it a rest. Even Bush and Blair have given up their pathetic claims of terrorist links after universal derision. At least with the WMDs claims there is a small chance the Allies were right...
p.s. sure I started the 'Mr. Hat' thing, but ha ha, anyway...
Your country sponsors the most brutal terrorist state on earth. 3bn dollars every year or roundabout goes to financing ethnic cleansing in Palestine. Hardly PC PNJ is it?
Why would a PC approach to foreign affairs led to hatred of you? Think about what you say before you say it.
Yes, in Iraq. Pay attention.
a) the war on Iraq has delivered a blow to terrorism in any way
b) there will be less terrorists operating in Iraq next year than there were before Saddam fell
you are might be in for a nasty surprise.
The way things were with the no fly zones, a region was created where Al Qaeda could, and was, operating. Also at the time, Saddam hated the US so when a combatant from Afghanistan was treated at a Baghdad hospital and went up to that cell and then on to ricin...that should have told any thinking person in the UK when he was picked up that something has to be done about Iraq.
Then there's the moral issue. Would the world have allowed all of the torture is the Iraqis weren't Muslims? The whole UN compliance thing...even if Saddam had complied...there was nothing in that provision to oust Saddam.
The idea that the Shi'ite terrorist groups like Hezbollah and Sunni terrorists groups like Al Qaeda wouldn't get together was shot down in Africa this past fall when they did work together to bomb that hotel and attempt to shoot down the airliner.
A democratic, Muslim-led Iraq could help prevent the next generation of terrorists. And the extremists Muslim clerics in Iran are barely holding onto power. But I agree, weeding them out worldwide is the best way to fight Al Qaeda.
"America doesn't have to justify itself to anyone. Why? We have the world's best military and we're willing to fight for our freedom."
In what way was your freedom threadent by Iraq?
This is excately why i demonstrated against the wat in Iraq, "America doesn't have to justify itself to anyone" what an attitude is that?
"Those who won't need to be killed....without trials. Just kill them."
Saying this in my way of thinking does not make you any better than "them"
You willing to make a bet?
My only concern is what to use as independent verification. Forgive me my saying so, but after the hilarious "Saddam has links with terrorism" claims by the US your government is not exactly a trusted source when it comes to terrorism checks.
How about "Janes"?
Of course, you have a problem. Saddam clearly does have links to terrorism. You just refuse to admit it.
Training sites have been found and that is a matter of public record.
Records have been located describing funding and that is a matter of public record.
And known and wanted terrorists have been captured, and found to have been working directly with Saddam to transfer funds and support to terrorist organizations. Also a matter of public record.
All 3 have been reported by the BBC, which is rather explicit about their insistence on their "impartiality".
But you won't accept those, so how about the leading independent intelligence agency in the world?
Documents
Do you really want to discuss countries financing terrorist groups (or fighters as some would call them, eh
I must concede that the US would never allow terrorists enter America and organise terrorism from there. But then Saddam never had the benefit of a CIA agency willing to travel abroad and give all needed support and training right on the terrorists' doorstep.
As for the links... well, if it ain't the world's most successful investigating newspaper, the Daily Telegraph! You have to wonder how they do it... first the papers 'proving' a Labour MP was on Saddam's payroll, and now the Holy Grail of America's argument is effortlessly found in a file cabinet. Boy, those guys know how to find stuff. How long before they come across papers proving Saddam Hussein is in fact Lord Lucan? The CIA should recruit them, really.
Read the London Times and Telegraph newspapers.
France passed information on the Iraq regarding plans to attack it.
And Saddam's people met with Bin Laden back in 1998 to fight their common enemy: the US.
A man was tracked and picked up in London with Ricin which he got from the Al Qaeda group operating in Northern Iraq.
I'm not going to call people traitors on the site. But know one thing: after what was revealed this weekend in the London papers...I will view you as traitors from here on. Thank God for strong people like Bush and Blair. I will never forgive France.
And for $64,000 contestant, can you name the people/group who is in control of the labs and the area where they are found?
ROTFLMFAO for 20 minutes! Your best one yet pnj!
The training areas that were discovered were South of Baghdad, and run by members of the Iraqi military. Maybe you should pay a little more attention to the news and to posts. I didn't say labs, I said training areas.
The question isn't about US or UK links to terrorists, it is about Iraq's links to terrorists. Links you insisted didn't exist.
You're backpeddling, Aladdin. Busy trying to divert people from the issue.
The group linked to Al Qaeda. The same group that had tested ricin on a local man in a village and watched him die last summer. This link is undeniable. The smoke screen was the Saddam didn't control the nothern area where they operated. But now with the new revelations...we know he probably invited them in. The one guy knew to go to Baghdad for medical treatment straight from Afghanistan.
Oh, some of the 911 terrorists took flying lessons in Florida. According to your logic, that would make the US a terrorist state...
If you think that is ridiculous, then so is suggesting Iraq had links with terrorism because one man went to the doctor in Baghdad.
So again, when papers are found that link Saddam with Al Qaeda....because they have a common enemy....not because they were friends...not to believe that and to be wrong is a chance America isn't willing to take right now. It's also why the new Iraq will be a Muslim democracy...rather than run by a Shi'ite majority as a religious state. We won't take the chance again.
At least the efforts/attempts at obfuscation are a constant within the waffling...