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Religion

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Do you believe in religion, religious texts and god at all? <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, stop bringing it up.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No. Bring it up all you want.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do you?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Was raised a Catholic, studied it and other religion extensively but live now happily with no ties to any religious organization.

    Catholics I found were way too into the guilt sin Hell thing so I ran.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes.

    Raised up jewish. Both my parents are jewish by heritage. Though they come from VERY different backgrounds.
    My mum grew up in a very religious society, while my dad doesn't believe in God, and grew up celebrating nothing.

    Seeing both worlds, I do believe in God, but not fanatic about my religion. As I have said in some other threads, you need to be able to question your religion, and make it give sense. I don't believe the "it just is, cause it says so in the bible", there needs to be an explenation. And I feel sorry for those people who get so caught up, that it all ends in mechanism.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and grew up celebrating nothing.
    birthdays, new year? <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg:
    <STRONG>birthdays, new year? <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"></STRONG>

    <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> You know what I mean. He grew up in a totally atheistic enviroment.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    He grew up in a totally atheistic enviroment.
    sounds pretty healthy to me....,.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg:
    <STRONG>sounds pretty healthy to me....,.</STRONG>
    So religion is unhealthy now? <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Something to do with the diet I think <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg:
    <STRONG>Something to do with the diet I think <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"></STRONG>
    Too much communion wine <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
    And those little wafers are so fattening darling <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If it keeps people happy, then i don't see why people should try to pull that crutch away from them.

    But when they start hitting people with that crutch, it becomes a problem.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper:
    <STRONG>you need to be able to question your religion, and make it give sense. I don't believe the "it just is, cause it says so in the bible", there needs to be an explenation. And I feel sorry for those people who get so caught up, that it all ends in mechanism.</STRONG>

    Dont you think it sounds a bit contradictory? If you question your religion then are you really prepared to believe in it? And you know religion is something you cant really prove or argue in the end, cos nobody in this world knows the answer about anything supernatural. So I think passion is the key word for people with religious belief, rather than reason or logic that kind of stuff.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    When I say question I mean, that if you have doubts, then you shoud be able to ask and get a proper answer.

    I know you can't prove something related to believe a hundred percent, but some things seem more logical than others. I won't do something when I can't see the idea in it or the good. I won't follow anything blindly.

    Thats my point of view...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Unsurprisingly (after looking at my signature), I'm not a fan of religion. As a matter of fact children should not be taught religion by their parents or at school. In many cases this brainwashing will have a profound influence in their lives, dictating how they live, what they do. How more unfair and plain cruel can it get then seeing all those god-bothering young people in the US and elsewhere, growing up believing that if they have sex before marriage they'll suffer eternal suffering? That if they happen to be homosexual they're nothing but the Devil re-incarnated? How many people have committed suicide or led a life of misery because of this? Or even worse, what about those idiots who blow themselves up in a cafe killing dozens, and thinking that kind of action would gain them entry to paradise and fornication with 70 virgins? Do you possibly believe than anyone who hasn't being brainwashed since birth could possibly believe that shit???

    The fact is this: if children were not told a word about religious beliefs, absolutely nobody would be religious. From a neutral point of view it becomes fully apparent what a load of bollocks religion is.

    The same old argument that religion makes people good doesn't wash. On the contrary, I've always found that it is the atheists and agnostics who have always shown the biggest share of charity, understanding and morals.

    And for those of you who think that a child brought up in a godless environment would go straight to hell, how could this be? God is supposed to be all-knowing and wise. Therefore if a person is good-hearted and a good samaritan they would inevitably go to heaven. Since they did not know about God, they could not possibly worship him (not that a being that is all-powerful and in possession of infinite wisdom would actually care whether people worship him, of course).

    Stop brainwashing the children now!!!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin:
    <STRONG>Stop brainwashing the children now!!!</STRONG>
    That's a little forceful. Child abuse?

    Some people do believe in a God, and follow a religion, so why force these people not to share their beliefs with others? Surely you support freedom of speech?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not when it ruins someone's life as a result.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin:
    <STRONG>Not when it ruins someone's life as a result.</STRONG>
    Can you give an example? <IMG SRC="confused.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hi Aladdin, I was just wondering, (if you haven't already stated) what your experiences of Religious Education were, you seem to be quite negative about it.

    Just wondering <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin:
    <STRONG>I've always found that it is the atheists and agnostics who have always shown the biggest share of charity, understanding and morals.</STRONG>
    And that is absolute cack. Sorry, but it is.

    Lots of major charities have a relgious (usually, in this country, Christian) background, even if it is not overt.
    e.g. Oasis trust, London City Mission (both working with homeless); Chrisitan Aid, Tearfund (intl aid); Fairtrade etc etc...

    Not to mention the thousands of smaller projects organised by individual churches.

    Of course, atheists are charitable too, but I think one of the main teachings of Christianity is charity and service to others. What's so bad about that?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Christened Church of England, but agnostic.

    Catholicism sounds interesting.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Most of the mainstream religions are good to the people and society. I have no problem with them.

    I think what Aladdin said is those who go to the extreme, like brain-washing people so they kill others or suicide.

    Even without such extremes, dont you think religious people are less tolerent than those without religion? They dont like to see those who are different to their way of lifestyles and beliefs. If thats not the case there wont be so much religious conflicts all over the world.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was brought up a catholic. It wasn't a traumatic experience or anything, my mother has never imposed any funny business on me. My parents are actually quite liberal and I was never lectured about sex being bad, or anything of the sort. Nor I did go to a religious school or anything like that. But even at the tender age of 10 I was starting to realise, on my own account, that religion didn't make a lot of sense. If there is one thing I'm proud of in my life, is that.

    And Kentish, if you read the example about Palestinian blowing themselves up in my earlier post you would know what I mean by ruining lives. At the end of the day, who in their right minds would believe they would gain eternal happiness and have lots of sex by killing lots of people, had they be not brainwashed since birth about such rubbish?

    Or how about those told that God hates homosexuals and that they'll go to hell if they don't suppress their sexual feelings? How many people have suffered in silence because of this? I believe that might well account for ruining someone's life.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin:
    <STRONG>And Kentish, if you read the example about Palestinian blowing themselves up in my earlier post you would know what I mean by ruining lives. At the end of the day, who in their right minds would believe they would gain eternal happiness and have lots of sex by killing lots of people, had they be not brainwashed since birth about such rubbish?
    </STRONG>
    But you've just lumped all religions together as if they are all the same, and teach the same things. Don't be so naive.
    Sure, Islam has been exploited by fundamentalists and people have done crazy things because they think it is part of their religion. I am not a muslim/moslem so I can't really say whats going on there. And of course I don't agree with what they do.

    But if I choose another religion, can you explain how it ruins lives, or brainwashes people. Sikhism: actively peaceful. Christianity: actively peaceful. Hinduism: actively peaceful.
    <STRONG>Or how about those told that God hates homosexuals and that they'll go to hell if they don't suppress their sexual feelings? How many people have suffered in silence because of this? I believe that might well account for ruining someone's life.</STRONG>
    I'm out of my depth here - I wouldn't know what most religions think about homosexuality. Even the Catholic church is confused - it seems to accept homosexuals as long as they do not engage in gay sex.

    But even if most religions do not accept active homosexuals, I have yet to meet a religious person who actually hates homosexuals for what they are. I have never heard anyone tell a homosexual that they are going to hell.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thanks for that Aladdin. I think it would be great for people to put down their personal experiences of religion to see why they think that way. I'll do mine <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

    From 5 - 16 I went to Catholic schools, and I was the sort of kid who had to be dragged off to church kicking and screaming. So being me, I rebelled against it. I had utter distain for religion of any sort especially Christianity. I believed that it was completely ridiculous for a set of books, etc to tell people how to live, and it was out of order to be judgemental etc I thought there was no way society could progress with religion - being intolerant of almost anything. We were born, we grow, we die. That was it.

    Then one day I found one of my mums prayer cards lying around (basically it was a prayer for St Judes or something - they are a group of monks or nuns who say prayers for people) and I was kinda rude about it telling her that religion and God was nothing but a pile of intolerant crap. She said to me, "Well these are MY beliefs and YOU are not being very tolerant of them are you missy?"

    Point was taken. I had been so high and mighty about how bad religion was etc I forgot that it means something to others and how I wasn't exactly being nice about her beliefs. Thats why I get annoyed when people say that for society to work there has to be tolerance of all beliefs, but would happily say that they would burn a Bible etc. (Although I appreciate that my mother isn't exactly an extreme case i.e wouldn't blow herself up)

    I'm not an atheist, or a theist, I don't know what the answers are but I have faith in something, (which I won't go into <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> ) but at least I have something to believe. <IMG SRC="cool.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well luckily we live in a liberal country like Britain where people are let be. Not so in much of Africa, Asia and of course, the Bible Belt in the good all US of A.

    All I was saying is that children should not be told religion as the one and universal truth. Just teach them History (which will include a fair amount on the religions and its followers, but keep it as it is: history, old folklore and superstitions. Then, when they reach 18, tell them that actually Christianity is true, God really exists and JC came back from the dead for us and then flew up to heaven. See how many would believe it.
    That is way the different Churches would fight to the bitter end against not teaching children religion. Because otherwise they would have no members at all.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    All I was saying is that children should not be told religion as the one and universal truth

    Do you mean in schools? Cos when I was taught R.E at school we weren't spoon fed what to believe. Its like reading a newspaper - you read what happens, and its up to YOU to decide what you believe to be true.
    I liked R.E at school I learnt a lot about other religions and other cultures and it made me think about the world around me and why it is like that. <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin:
    <STRONG>Because otherwise they would have no members at all.</STRONG>
    Riiiight. You really don't understand religion at all, do you? Christians believe that there is one God. They believe that he is not a piece of history, but a living supernatural force, who is real. We don't need to be taught about Him to make Him real. Therefore your assumption that there would be no religion if we weren't taught about Jesus in schools just doesn't add up.

    If you are an atheist then fair enough. You have made your choice, presumably it was informed.

    I was brought up in a Chrisitan environment, went to a C of E primary school and so on. I struggled in a similar way to go_away as a teenager because I just couldn't see the point in going to church, and I didn't see God making any difference in my life. My Dad is not a Christian, and I looked at him and saw that you can get through life quite happily without religion.

    So now I am left not really knowing. I have always known that there is a God - I have faith in God. I have no doubt about that - life is just too amazing to be down to chance. But I am still disappointed with the attitudes of some religious people, who do seem to be overly judgmental. I am actually very interested in theology, but I would argue for an informed choice. The Bible is not a history book, it is something more. It has some very wise advice in it. Whether it's God's advice is another matter...

    Anyway, I take a very liberal attitude to religion. If you want to do it, then fine. If you do not believe in any God, then that's fine too, but don't try to shout down those that do. We all have individual views and we should all accept each other's.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fair point Kentish, and everyone else. But all I was asking is that children are taught the different religions within a historical context, and live it at that. I would not want to try to ban adults from worshiping whoever they please.
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