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Churchill said, ''We stood together and, because of that fact, the free world stands.
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
(Churchhill said that regarding the special relationship and values of the UK and America.)
"Ain't that the truth." Bugs Bunny. (Bugs said that regarding how attractive he is. But it's a good answer here too.)
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I also agree that the debate over the future of Iraq is potentially a point of reconciliation but it may also make things worse if the US freezes people out or if there are big policy disagreements..........
Hopefully theyll be out in 2005 and replaced by a more internationalist and diplomatically minded administration, but that remains to be seen.
What's the rationale behind the 'special relationship'? The UK and USA were allies in WWII. But that was decades ago.
Kyoto!
My how we get along................:rolleyes:
Yes, the special relationship in which the Americans left us to fend for ourselves until we were safely beating the Germans in the Battle of Britain so they could see who was winning. Not that they would have intervened anyway, the only reason the US got involved in World War Two was because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour. Let's not forget even when they were our allies they were milking us through the war loans for equipment in the war which caused our economy to be totally shot for another decade after the war while they helped the Japanese and Germans to rebuild their economies and overtake us.
There certainly is a special relationship, British politicians doff and scrape to the Americans in exchange for a few nice words and playing the international statesman.
Not according to the latest poles Toadborg. And kyoto is a one side idiotic, unprovable document designed to give freeloaders an edge they will NEVER get from their leftist, lazy, jealous, ungrateful people. Don't get ME started.
By the way, we've had record-breaking cold in North America this year.
the US wouldn't have gotten involved in the European war if Hitler hadn't have allied with the Japanese. FACT!
Do you have any substance to back that up instead of random right-wing ranting? The Kyoto Treaty was created in 1997 to stabilise carbon dioxide emissions at their 1990 levels and encourage greater use of renewable energy. What exactly do you object to in that? The American government objected to it because the United States produces an absurd amount of the CO2 emissions it's either 25% or 40% I can't remember which (I'm sure someone will correct me
PNJ you obviously don't do geography - global warming refers to increasing sea temperatures because of the CO2 acting like a blanket on the earth warming it up, this in turn leads to the polar ice caps melting leading to flooding and more extreme weather patterns such as the record breaking cold temperatures you've experienced - the polar ice caps act as a brake on the weathers excesses by destroying them the weather becomes more volatile and extreme.
Those against: Germany; France; Belguim.
Neutral: Switzerland; Sweden; Austria.
I am also talking about the stance of the people niot the govt, the Spanish are possible the most anti-war nation in Europe yet their leaders are going along with Bush, expect to see Aznar suffer at the next elections, luckily he isn't standing again, weird coincidence........
Do you not find it a strange coincidence that the largest polluter in the world is also the most opposed to doing something to curb that pollution?
Like i said before, its towns like yours that will suffer most, good luck..............
I'm still not pro war. War is a horrible thing. Yet, the every day person in the UK and US have as their core values the conviction to liberate people who can't help themselves. I'm not saying business deals won't be made. But to deny the pro-democracy, freedom-loving nature of the US and UK is a lie feeding into some wierd need to be the same with the likes of stand-for-nothing Europe.
I certainly think you are mistaken in thinking people beleive in liberating others, do you want to invade China? Would you have supported this war if you believed Saddam had no connection with terrorism and no WMD?
What does the US stand for that Europe doesn't?
That was over 50 years ago. The US and the UK have changed a leetle bit since then, as has the world. The perception of a 'free world' is flawed now, there is no Stalinist bloc or Nazi Axis now. Only Oil, whos got it and who wants it.
i know your humor seems to be pretty anti-continental, course, we only get the old monty python and fawlty towers reruns over here!:D
0 in favour
15 against
*Results are indicative and may not reflect public opinion.
And I dont know why people would feel closer to Europe than America. Certainly most of the people I know don't.
And while I'm talking about polls. I don't always get them. On CNN they asked Americans their feeling about the war.
70% said they were proud.
71% said they were relieved no WMD's were used.
54% had no opinion.
70+71+54%= 175%. So 175% people responded to this pole?
a lapdog is a flunky that does it's master's bidding no matter what. england does not toe our line all the time, it just so happens that our interests have often lay (lied? lain?) along the same paths. a lapdog follows behind it's master, the brits have always stood shoulder-to-shoulder with us (or face-to-face). there's no frigging way you can call them lapdogs...
Then there's the English and American character and morals Tony Blair and Bush have spoken of. Saddam was torturing his people and morally we are right to go in and stop it.
He was also pursuing nuclear weapons/dirty bomb technologies.
A democratic Iraq will set a good example for the Middle East.
War is horrible...but so is not liberating people when you can. Doing nothing, is more in keeping with the Swiss, Sweden, Belguim, France and Germany.
Im sure you must have excellent and thorough research into all foreign policy areas of the countries you have so selectively listed that backs up your claim? I should be most interested to see such comprehensive research.
In culture we are certainly closer to America in my opinion, most of our bond is due to having a common language and the fact that neither nation can be bothered to learn a foreign language to communicate with the Europeans.
In politics though I'd say there is an ever widening gulf between the beliefs in Washington and Europe (including Britain). Britain generally accepts the idea of having the Welfare State and state involvement in a lot more areas than Americans would permit. The increased taxation and increased expenditure on the health service and education seems to me to indicate we are more European in our politics.
I'm against the Euro and think it would be an economic disaster for us to join but that doesn't automatically make me anti-European. Yes, there is a mild mistrust between all member states but I think as the Eastern European nations join the EU who are more in tune with our view that the nation states should be stronger the Franco-German federalist plans will gradually slow down.
Yes, I would say America is a greater friend to us than Europe but that doesn't automatically make America a good friend to us, just makes Europe worse. Look at the polls which show that most Britons believe that George Bush is the greatest threat to world peace and stability. I can't think of many examples where America has genuinely done something for us as a friend without some sort of quid pro quo in return.
BTW PNJ the polls work because you can be proud and relieved that no WMDs were used and you can be proud and have no opinion that WMDs weren't used. Badly explained but hopefully you'll get me!
Yes there is. Lapdog is correct - that's why Blair is called "Bush's Poodle". Most British people were opposed to joining the war on Iraq but Blair blithely followed Washington and took us in and led to the deaths of British servicemen, mainly from American "cowboys" to quote one of the RAF servicemen after the American forces shot down one of our planes killing all on board.
There's a long and glorious history of British Prime Minister's just following America - starting with Thatcher accepting American cruise missiles in Britain against the wishes of the people and ending with this current situation in Iraq.
This war has nothing to do with Al-Qaeda. None of the 9/11 hi-jackers were Iraqi, most of them were Saudi but will you see Bush invading Saudi Arabia? No because America's still got access to their oil. Iraq was chosen because it was an easy target, it has been virtually crippled since the sanctions were imposed after the Gulf War and there would be little the Iraqis could do to defend themselves and the added bonus of George Bush getting Saddam's head on a platter instead of bin Laden's. Also on the point of financing the Palestinian/Israeli conflict - the Arab nations fund the Palestinians and the Americans fund the Israelis. Both sides are just as bad as each other, the Palestinians launch suicide bombers so the Israeli government bomb the hell out of civilian Palestinian areas.
If we are morally justified in invading all countries who violate civil rights then you've got a long way to go, I don't know many nations you'd have to attack but it'd be more nations than you wouldn't be attacking. But will you see this moral case leading to an invasion of China where there is also a barbaric regime? No because China is our friend, just like Saddam was in the 1980s.
Lots of countries have nuclear weapons, America has the most and is the only country to have ever used them in war. What makes America more justified in having them than anyone else? If we wanted to stop the proliferation of nuclear weapons why didn't America intervene when India and Pakistan developed them - in a very volatile climate where they could easily be used?
You are also assuming that a democratic Iraq will happen, don't count your chickens before they're hatched.
Maybe you should remember why most European nations are so anti-war, in the last century the European mainland suffered the two worst wars in global history. French farmers are still finding the remains of those who died in World War One to this day. Europe has witnessed the horrible effects of war first hand, it's all very easy to sit at home thousands of miles away and say "oh well it's worth it" when you're not directly affected.