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World government?
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
Just wondering, who thinks the world governments of shows like Star trek could ever become a reality?
Will we actually ever get bored with national disputes and create a single world power? Or is it doomed to fail?
Will we actually ever get bored with national disputes and create a single world power? Or is it doomed to fail?
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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I think it would be great to wake up tommorrow to one united world with everyone friendly. Unfortunately its not going to happen. The way things are going at the moment the only way that any one world government will come about is the complete supression of certain areas of the world. History has shown us that you cannot force people into something such as that.
If humans stay the way they are for a while to come the only way I can see a one world government is through war and supression. If its achieved that way then I dont think its gonna be much like the Startrek type government, much more like a military dictatorship.
I can only see it happening if humans evole and start acting a little more civil toward each other. I think we both know how soon thats gonna happen <IMG alt="image" SRC="frown.gif" border="0">
I just hope that we do have a world government, and that the capital is London, and the person in charge is me.
Think about it; there are 1.3 billion people in China. There are 300 million in the USA. Who would want to rule? The USA. Who would rule? China. Why? Because we'd sign up to a democracy.
But, the USA wouldn't sign, because they'd lose their status as a world power, and hence, others wouldn't too. Besides, dependency theory says that we have to differentiate the world otherwise capitalism fails. Money and trade make the world go round. And yet there is a vast gulf between the rich and poor.
Some questions for you all;
(1) How much money changes hands in the world, US dollars, per 24 hours?
(2) What proportion of the world has not made/received a phone call?
And finally; there are more telephones lines in to Manhattan than there are in to the entire continent of Africa.
This division cannot be politically overcome, there is too much self interest at heart......
[ 14-01-2002: Message edited by: DJP ]
As for the phone call one, 4 billion people around the world have never used a phone.
Surely it has to happen, sooner or later. The tribe became obsolete. The city-state became obsolete. So shall the small nation, I guess.
Hey guess what? You can also rebuild the temple in 3 1/2 years, have three horsemen riding around, 7 broken seals, and 7 bowls. It sounds really cool to me. <IMG alt="image" SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Personally the idea of one world government scares me. I think that it's the topic of fantasy and philosophy but would never work. Any ruling body would face temptations of corruption that would be fantastic. I also find it impossible to think that if such a society could exist that it would be done in all fairness without people being exploited. But as always... a nice philosophical conversation about what an ideal society would be like.
Heres my vision of a one world government:
Culture: nope forget about it, that'd be eliminated off the bat.
Religion: well we 're unified as one world there may as well be one religion - which would be in accordance to whatever or who ever was in power at the time...
Opinion or freedom to disagree: doubtful thatd happen seeing as how most societies frown on such things...
No, you can have your one world mess - leave me out of it because I can honestly say I hope Im dead before it happens - Jeez imagine if that were to happen now - we'd have that whining brat Kofi Annan as our supreme leader - Thanatos, pass the Cyanide over if that happens, ok? <IMG alt="image" SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
All food and resources are redistributed according to who needs them, not who WANTS them. Industrial resources can be combined, making it easier, cheaper and more efficient to pursue one goal at a time, or to designate certain areas to produce certain things.
Large nations with lots of fertile land can become farming areas. Nations that had large amounts of raw materials can become manufacturing areas. Other areas can be used to research.
Money and resources can be poured into certain areas, medical research, space exploration, energy. If all this happenes then no-one will starve, everyone will respect everyone else. Imagine how quickly we can begin to explore space when the combined resources of the USA, russia and China are used to develop space craft that can go further and faster?
if this went ahead properly then there is no reason why humanity cant enter a golden age.
USSR on a world wide scale... Now THAT is certainly worthy of the most incredible wetdream! ROTFLMFAO!
So caught up in your delusions and so full of yourself that the reality of this world is beyond your grasp?
Pathetic brainfart...
Take a moment to LOOK at what has visited the world from the Soviet Union. THIS is what you hope for???
...and you WONDER why we call you sheep? Too stupid to remember to breathe for yourself?
lmfao!
What the hell are you on about?
And what is so wrong about wanting a world that is actually good? You only don't like the idea because it would need a form of government that you are religiously opposed to, and that the USA would lose its power. The USSR only became a useless shit hole when it converted to capitalism. thanks to the USA. Maybe if you weren't such a pathetic sheep you could see that the world could be a better place for everyone if we all tried. But your head is too far up your own arse to even begin considering the future of mankind.
While your idealism is nice - communal sharing of resources was attemped on a similar scale from 1917 - 1989 in the former Soviet Union. Personally I don't like the idea of socialism, which is the only way this could work, in any form.
From the Soviet and indeed the Chinese models of government, there is still an unequal distribution of wealth and resources.
And respect for others? No I think that will escalate the situation we already have - I see resentment growing if say we "unite" the arabs and jews for example, Islam with Christianity - if we're all under one banner, one will eventually force their will over another.
Resource sharing - nice idea but again, what if one area has a shortage in say wheat to go around, but the area in question is in
a "farming area" for the world - I see huge local conflicts ignighting if youre still distributing wheat worldwide when there's hunger locally.
And don't even get me started on guns - those would be the first to go, seeing as the "one world" model is eurocentric in nature to begin with.
A golden age? hardly - try a dark age; people will always disrespect each other, hate each other and go hungry - besides - Cultures would be destroyed - America for one is a capatilist society based on competition and work - that'd die too fast and thus kill our culture. No thanks.
So you don't like the idea of a world where instead of competing, we co-operate? We share information and ideas? Of course you wouldn't. The idea of an American wanting to share any sort of technology disgusts you. It may be a "eurocentric" idea, but at least it is hope for a time where the world may become a decent place to live. I'd rather live under a united government, than in a nuclear wasteland, which is what will happen.
I think the world already is a decent place to live and as far as a nuclear threat - Im doubtful thats a real worry at all.
As an American, I beleive in competition - it forces people to work harder rather than take handouts for what they want in life. I like the idea that one can become rich as a result of that hard work amidst competition. "Sharing" technology, as you put it, kills any hope of competition and not to mention any hope of a free market enterprise on which my country was founded on - yes I find the concept abbhorrent.
As far as ideas that disgust me - Im disgusted at the notion that people would, under your system, be compelled to laziness and further dependant on the hard work of others.
Again you ignore a crucial part of my argument - culture - some cultures were simply never meant to (and judging by their histories) WILL never coexist peacefully - to place them all under one nation would only cause more problems than its worth.
The Soviet Union turned to capitalism because it could not feed its own people. The USA was ALREADY sending massive amounts of food to the USSR before its collapse.
You are CORRECT... I am totally commited against a philosophy which would starve the world away...
And you are pathetically mired within your own ignorance and commitment to mediocrity!
Whowhere,
Idealism, however desirable the idea may seem, is still idealism. I think the Americans have shown why your one-world government will not work: there is no desire from the West to share with the developing world.
Whilst I too would like to see shared resources and skills, the world is not moving in that direction, and it would take a very brave, or politically suicidal, politician to even suggest this as a concept. Lets face it, Britons have enough problems with European integration let alone a worldwide government.
Thanatos,
You have shown you are an intelligent man in other posts, so I wish you would resist the temptation to resort to insults or wildly inaccurate rhetoric which does not contribute anything constructive to the discussion.
[/rant]
Soviet Union, the shining example of communal system in modern world on a large basis, FAILED because it could not support its population. The communal (or "collectivist") system reduced EVERYBODY (except the sheep herders) to the lowest common denominator, and there is NO incentive to do a worthy job at ANYTHING.
ANYONE who espouses the communal (or collectivist) system, world-wide, with ONE government and leadership, is PAINFULLY IGNORANT OF REALITY!
The US already contributes more to lesser developed nations than the rest of the world combined. Whose pocket does THAT come out of? People like me, who work for what we have. Eighty cents out of every dollar I earn goes to one tax or another. And you want to take the rest of it away and reduce US to a life similar to that in Red China?
Do you have ANY comprehension how much better MY life would be if ANY of the nations that still owe the US from WW2 started to pay off their debt, and reduced MY tax load??? If Mexico BEGAN to pay off their phenominal debt? If our INCREDIBLE contribution, money food and material, to the rest of the world ceased, and Y'ALL fended for yourselves?
Ain't gonna happen... And neither is the US sitting still to be raped by the rest of the world. The traitor Klinton may have attempted to sell out the US to the One World Order, but that treachery is going NO further...
Whilst I think the idealogies of a society that co-operates universally is certainly commendable, I think it serves well staying as an idealogy. It seems if we ever achieved any form of fully working socialism (which most would argue is probably impossible) then the texture of life, and all that makes it interesting would be removed. However, of course there are those who don't enjoy the priviledges we have, them without the phonelines, or more importantly, the shelter and food they need. And its there that I think moves towards a more united world are needed. Tackling a problem such as poverty would be achieved so much more effectivly if co-ordinated on a truely global scale.
So perhaps a World Government isn't such a great idea, as part of the reason we have the many nations is as guardians of cultural diversity (and whilst the conflict between cultures may be a bad thing, I think the diversity of them is a good thing), I think global movements focussed to tackling world problems are something we should be striving for. But if we allow individual governments to retain their cultures and seperate economies (which has the merit of meaning economic failures can be on a country level instead of global, but the failure of not sharing success with all nations) then the governments are not the best people to bring about these changes.
Perhaps it is people, led maybe by the Non-Governmental-Organisations (NGO's - baically the charities, pressure groups etc) working together united. Thats the place to start. If people can work together first, then politics will follow, if politicians are scared of public opinion being against greater international co-operation (which I would advocate over internation united government), then they are not going to act for fear of losing their power.
Should unity be imposed by government, or does it need to come from the actions of people?
Some fascinating thoughts raised in the rest of this thread. Much to think about.
Obs
Ya think the two might be related? One thing which so many people seem to ignore is that while it is a fairly decent place for all of us with nice homes and plenty of resources, for the greater majority it is not such a nice place to live.
People seem to inclined to believe that the worst will happen. This is probably because, with humans in situations like this, it usually does. But the suggestion that it may start with NATO, or NAFTA and then evolve is not such a stupid one. I bet you 100 years ago people would have said, "a single European currency?! Don't be stupid, that could never happen, countries argue too much!"
It *could* happen, and it *could* be good, one day, but not in the near futre.
What year was Star Trek set in?
Let's see what happens if you stop all your contributions to the world economy. Let's see how powerful you become when the world's nations stop sending you food and oil? What will you do then? Because you can be damn sure that there isn't enough oil in Alaska to run your country for 5 minutes.
You owe the world as much as the world owes you, if not more.
As for communism collapsing because they could not feed their people, what tosh! Communism collapsed due to increasing world pressure against the soviet government. not because the people were starving. Look at China, a commnist country, and it is overtaking Japan and America pretty quickly. I can't wait to see that happen that's for sure. Imagine, a world where America can't do what it wants and get away with it.
You talk of debt Thanatos, why shouldn't we make you pay for all the damage the USA has caused, to the environment, to other countries due to foreign policy. And let's not forget Japan, I bet they're aching to drop a nuke on you.
And the star trek universe starts in about 2100 with the creation of a world government, due to the horrendous damage caused by a nuclear war.
[ 16-01-2002: Message edited by: Whowhere ]
Hey it may come as offensive to you, but the only reason I live well is because I worked my ass off to get where I am today. I put myself through school, worked hard, never cheated and never rode to success off of anyone else's hard work. I view the one world fiasco as the direct opposite of that - making everyone "equal" under one nation and all that other shit suitable for a Pepsi commercial. What is being suggested here is FORCED distribution of wealth, which is what ultimately killed the Soviets and will lead to the downfall of all Communist countries.
I prefer a society where everyone WORKS hard to get ahead as opposed to relying on social welfare to "get by" - I dont see that under One World - I see subsidies based on percieved suffering - to hell with that - work for a living. This system only encourages sloth and laziness - which is whats tearing the world apart now.
<IMG alt="image" SRC="mad.gif" border="0">
It`s easy if you try
Big holes below us
B-2`s in the sky.
Imagine all the people
living in peace????????????
Give me a bleating break.
You guys cant even watch a soccer game in peace.
I think there is certainly a case for individual enterprise and rewards for hard work. I think the issue arises out of the fact not all people have the opportunity to work hard and get themselves a good quality of life. And unfortunatly the fact they have that opportunity is not down to them not working, but historical events and actions that have put them in a situation from where they have not the resources to work out of poverty. For example, the exploitation of the third world has meant many people in the nations there simply are not adequatly resourced to work to get themselves a good standard of living.
Being able to work and reap a reward for it, is for many a neccessary incentive for working, but there is certainly not a level playing field for all these workers to start from, and that is perhaps what is needed.
I'm saying that EVERYONE works towards a common goal. That resources are sent where they are needed instead of being hogged by one country. America doesn't NEED the resources it consumes all day every day, but it still uses up a vast quantity. Computers being left on in offices overnight for example, requires the output of the equivalent of 3 nuclear power plants. THREE! This is by computers being left on overnight so they don't need to goto the trouble of switching them on again in the morning.
All I'm saying is that if everyone works towards common goals instead of competing with each other over the few meagre resources that we have left then the world would be a better place.
My idea of a world government would be a more powerful UN. We would still have nation states, but there would be a more powerful central government as well, to co-ordinate international co-operation, space exploration, etc.
Where have you been living in last 50 years? Was it Earth?
As somebody who had unfortunate "pleasure" to grow up in communistic country and knowing a bit about Cold War, I really do not get how "world goverments has pressured soviet government into collapsing". Have they told them: "You better collapse or.. we will push the button?"
Hahaha. Like it or not, it was the US who was able to persuade Soviets that their Star Wars program is not joke, forcing them to invest additional and unafordable billions of dollars into their own weaponary R&D programs resulting into DESPERATE situation and indeterminateness of ORDINARY people which had only one way out: COLLAPSE. Situation was in fact very close to what you are trying to deny here: that people were not starving. YES, they were and not only physically and you have absolutely no real idea about how it looked like in communistic Central and Eastern Europe (ah sorry I forgot about famous extensive and in-depth stories in British press).
Debt that we have to US is not financial, but morale. They came twice in last century to save our asses from Bosches and defeated Communism. I am well aware that many people can't live with it, but that won't change a thing. They helped to restore democracy in my country and I am gratefull for that.
China overtaking Japan and US? What a sally!
Have you ever been in China? Go there and see how and for what price their economy is based on. Nothing even 200 miles close to what you call overtaking.
<IMG alt="image" SRC="mad.gif" border="0">
I'm sure that there are millions of people around the world who work their arses off all day everyday on the land, from a young age, to provide food for the world, who haven't ever got a chance of earning enough money to go to school and get qualifications. I think that to enforce equality would be a stupid thing, but what there should be is equality of oppurtunity(sp?).
If you think China to be such a wondrous place, where you might loll on your ass, stay drunk and drugged up in your delusional state, and live in homogenous harmony, then - pray tell - why not simply cart yourself off to that place for a decade, and then report back to us as to the heavenly experience you so richly enjoyed in nirvana...
ROTFLMFAO!
You want to steal away what little is left after the enormous tax burden I bear, THIS government squandering billions of dollars every year to prop up arrogant ingrates like you? Come and take it... just remember, I AM one of the barbarians with GUNZ <IMG alt="image" SRC="eek.gif" border="0">, and you WILL be on the receiving end of an edifying and rectumfying moment. <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0">
Belay that... BETTER idea! Since you crave "ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT", and the US is the most powerful nation on earth, how about we simply colonize each and every damn one of y'all, and shove what y'all want straight down yer damn throats? <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
Be careful what ye ask for, because you just might get it! <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0"> Hitler was quite willing to supply you with what you yearn for, or does not history play ANY relevent role? Happened before you were born, so it ain't real, right? <IMG alt="image" SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
[ 16-01-2002: Message edited by: Thanatos...AGAIN ]