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Being on the dole
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
If I was in charge, I would set up a work-bank thing for unemployed people. Everyone would get the minimum amount of Jobseekers, say £30 a week. But then you have the option of doing extra work that would not normally get done in society, like helping out a charity, assisting the police, clearing an old pond up (whatever anyway, you get the idea)..
Then you get extra money, not a lot mind you, but a bit, jobs get done, and plus you have something to get on with.
The biggest problem with being unemployed is boredom and feeling worthless-if people had a way they could still use their skills they would not get such low self esteem. If I am unemplyed again I think I'll go and help out in the homework club in the library. Or if you can design websites, why not offer to set up a simple site for a local charity?
Then you get extra money, not a lot mind you, but a bit, jobs get done, and plus you have something to get on with.
The biggest problem with being unemployed is boredom and feeling worthless-if people had a way they could still use their skills they would not get such low self esteem. If I am unemplyed again I think I'll go and help out in the homework club in the library. Or if you can design websites, why not offer to set up a simple site for a local charity?
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Be patient...give it a few months, things are happening...missles to be manufactured, bombers to build, all the toys of this brave new world!
Diesel
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© 2002 Linda Bowles
It is difficult to understand the long-range implications of current events. This is to say, it is difficult to know whether a current event is part of a historical sidetrack, a cultural fad or a mainstream trend.
Smart people have called our attention to this reality. For example, the late Ayn Rand described the insidious process which takes a society, inch by unremarkable inch, to socialism:
The goal of the "liberals" – as it emerges from the record of the past decades – was to smuggle this country into welfare statism by means of single, concrete, specific measures, enlarging the power of the government a step at a time, never permitting these steps to be summed up into principles, never permitting their direction to be identified or the basic issue to be named.
Thus, statism was to come, not by vote or by violence, but by slow rot – by a long process of evasion and epistemological corruption, leading to a fait accompli. (The goal of the "conservative" was only to retard that process.)
When the federal government took over the task of inspecting luggage at airports and terminals, it added more than 30,000 new employees to its payroll. Most of them will become dues-paying members of government unions. They will become unremovable, overpaid wards of a government monopoly. They will become predictably dependent upon – and grateful to – the advocates of big government and higher taxes. They will become Democrats.
Surely there can no longer be any doubt that America is well on its way down the slippery slope to socialism. The government continues to grow in size, power and arrogance as it asserts increasing sovereignty over the lives and behavior of its subjects. The noose tightens, and the rabble wear it like a badge of honor.
Our progression on this path is so subtle that only in retrospect, when it is too late to resist, will we understand that our freedoms have been irretrievably forfeited and our Constitution irreversibly abandoned. In the words of Irish philosopher Edmund Burke, "The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedience, and by parts."
The idea of socialism is attractive. Its basic seductive premise is the same as that of modern liberalism: The government is responsible for implementing altruism throughout society. The government must control all available resources with a view toward equality and fairness. The government must fight the selfish impulse of people to keep the fruits of their own labor. Everyone, impelled by "compassion and caring," must sacrifice for the common good, so that all may share and share alike.
This noble-sounding doctrine is often expressed this way: "From each according to his ability; to each according to his need." So what if it's the creed of communism! However, there are a few problems when one descends from the political pulpit and attempts to translate this ethereal concept into practice.
Given a choice, people are disinclined to immolate themselves in service to others. The sacrifice of the fruit of one's hard labor for the achievement of a larger social goal is not natural behavior and cannot be maintained on a voluntary basis. Sooner or later, it requires force, which will not come openly, but like a thief in the night.
What comes to mind is the observation of Lord Chesterfield that " ... arbitrary power ... must be introduced by slow degrees, and as it were, step by step, lest the people should see it approach."
The massively cruel and ruinous communistic experiment of the Soviet Empire would not have been necessary if philosophers and intellectuals had not ignored a basic truth about human nature: Human beings, as a derivative of the instinct to survive, are innately driven to act in their own self interest. Notwithstanding propaganda, conditioning or brute force, any government or institution which runs head on against the grain of this basic human drive is doomed to fail.
We seem not to have learned a basic lesson of history: Capitalism harnesses human self interest; socialism exhausts itself trying to kill it.
The bureaucrats, who seize and dole out other people's assets, initially see themselves as humanitarians. Eventually, they conclude they are indeed superior to others, and treat themselves accordingly. They make laws to which they are not subject; they vote themselves and their wards privileges and benefits. Then, they no longer serve – they rule a nation of the government, by the government and for the government.
WorldNetDaily contributor Linda Bowles is a nationally syndicated columnist. She and her husband, Warren, have one daughter, Michelle, and live on a ranch situated on the western slope of the California Sierras.
Diesel
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Lets be honest... People in wheelchairs can do jobs and they do, Stephen Halkins is a great example, he's more disabled than most and look at what hes done...
If you can't get a job then you should get an allowance on the condition you do community service or something along those lines, theres lots people can do to help...
Obviously seriously sick people can't, I'm not unreasonable, but in general...
There is a difference between people who CANT work and people who WONT work. The people who can't work should be given as much help as they need to find a job and stick at it.
The people who won't work should be given an ultmatum, find work or we don't pay you. That sort of thing.
And Diesel, World War 3 won't happen, unless you gun crazy maniacs start it. Just calm down.
There are so many streets to clear up and graffiti to get rid of, I think its not that hard to get the unemployed involved in these things in return for their benefit.
However, there are problems, one of which is that this type of system may push people over the edge into criminality if they know they won't get any money one week if they don't turn up to 'work'. Also, it would create a LOT of bureaucracy.
Another option would to be to encourage volunteering amongst the unemployed (like the homework club) and offer bonuses to the unemployed who take part.
[Diesel that was way off the point - shut up]
I just wish there was a scheme like the one I said. My b/f has been made redundant and is looking for a job, I can see how much it is getting to him being in the house all day with nothing to do. Does anyone know what the average time is to get back into work?
I think the type of voluntary work available should be really varied; because to be honest, a professional person isn't going to really want to sweep the streets. It should be matched to the person; ie maybe first aid or making posters about crime, anything really! The point is that I think it would be quite easy for this to be organised, especially considering what society would get back from all the paperwork. Unemployed people are not encouraged to do anything except go and sign on..Does our whole society revolve around people working 9-5? Depressing.
Not many professional people are out of work for long periods of time anyway.
And how would you assess how much work people are actually doing in return for their dole money - it would take a lot of supervision and red tape.
Making posters??
Very true, but while they are looking they can do something useful with their time.
And the dole is??
What do you suggest a person gets on with when they have no money and no job. My point is that a lot of people need to feel they are doing something useful and when they have all that time, it wouldn't kill them to use their skills *whatever they might be* to help others.
Prove it. Wise spread redundancies have been made in the area I live in (Birmingham). Both my Dad and my boyfriend are looking for work, they are both experienced and qualified.
I don't know how I would oversee it all, it doesn't really matter does it as it's not going to happen and I'm not in charge! But it wouldn't be *that* hard. The amount of paperwork you have to fill in to get Jobseekers Allowance is huge, surely a few more forms to fill in wouldn't really hurt. The bit about the posters, I meant-if you are creative, you don't have to go and sweep the streets. It's not supposed to be a punishment but something you want to do-for some people they may want to design posters to advertise facts about crime, or drugs, or whatever really. You don't have to pick holes in something I am just hypothesising about! Go and pick on the powers that be!
Yep my dad was made redundant, and was without a proper job for about 8 months, but he still managed to temp and has now got a decent job. Professionals are always in demand - unskilled surplus labour is not - and lets face it those are the people that are on the dole for long periods of time. Generally.
Think about it. That's what this forum is for. How would you supervise all the unemployed (1 million - perhaps half a million eligible for this scheme) on these community based projects. It would take a lot of organising and the people would have to want to do the work. Forcing people by completely cutting off benefits is one way, but as I said, it may encourage criminality in the 'I can't be bothered brigade'.
I assumed we wanted simple tasks for them to do to fill up a few hours each day. We couldn't hope to find an individual job for each person - that would be the role of the Job Centre!
Eg. if you wanted to be a painter, you might go and help decorate a youth club, if you wanted to get into teaching, help at the homework club, if you wanted to friggin be a designer/artist/advertising, you might design posters! What's wrong with that? I realise it's just a theory! But needed tasks would get done, people would have something valuable to do and get experience.
Plenty of people just have no work Ethic whatsoever and will never pass on e onto their kids.
The problem is you can't deprive these people without depriving those who truly need the help. Catch 22. The uinwashed scum have us over a barrel!!
If world history and the 'human condition' repeats itself...the folks on the dole will be food for those who aren't...and that is the harsh reality of starvation.
Villages in New Texas have thousands of people starving to death from lack of grain, etc....they simply aren't destined for survival because they won't do what is necessary to live...eat thy neighbor.
If this horrifys you...as it should...then maybe you will consider the consequences of what you and your government are doing. Darwin rules, survival of the fittest...and we, you and US, feed the fools and wasters to our own detriment.
One dirty bomb nuke to London from the islamics and where will your society be...perhaps you can preserve it at the iron age level...maybe not! Certainly there will be social changes...any doubters or dreamers that think this isn't so?
Diesel
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We need to make the dole unattractive to lazy layabouts. At the moment you can sign on, get your money and not even bother looking for jobs, you can just bullshit your way through the signon interview things. I know this from personal experience.
I think KT has something here. If they would only get a tiny amount as a basic rate and then could do community service or something similar in order to raise the rate. I think that would work well. Those that genuinely couldnt get jobs would be catered for and they would be willing to do the community work. Those who were milking the system would realise its not worth the hassle and bugger off to either get a job or whatever.
Good ideas. Unfortunately it will never happen because no govt will have the guts to do it.
HOWEVER... it WOULD be another large step toward a communist state, where the government would control everything, and individual initiative would go the way of the dodo. Personally, I find that very troubling...
Bureaucracy is ALREADY the forebear of the welfare state...
Food when times get REALLY bad...or massive starvation after the numbers overwhelm the productivity of your society.
I'm not against poor people. Really! I deal with them on a daily basis...but it is a wonder to me how some have survived...even more so as to how some are tolerated at all...yep, I'm one of those who believes that junkies should be provided with their drugs or put out of their misery...whichever is cheaper.
When your children are surviving on a pinch of bran and ground up grass...what will be your decision?
Diesel
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I think this one is an ideal that we will never see happen. The best we can hope for is full employment...but that's a long way off yet.
btw, IT types do design advertising campaigns and few long-term unemployed people have these computer skills.
(What are you on about Diesel? I think you'll find you are responding to another thread)
I think you will find that not everyone who is lazy is also a criminal. I was on the dole and I didnt try to get a job. If my dole had been stopped or I had been forced to do community work then I wouldnt have turned to crime. I think the majority would be the same.
Because the money you would get on the dole, even including the extra cash for community work, would never equal what you could make on a normal job but the work would be the same.
Youre right that it will never happen.
It's a nice idea to get lazy slobs to do something useful, but as byny was saying, sometimes there is a deep-rooted anti work ethic, which is very difficult to shift.
No because theres no work involved. They can earn money on the dole while doing absolutely no work. There is no community work thing with the dole at the moment.
Ah, Brother Diesel... we BOTH are aware that they are sustained by artificial methodology. Nature is about "survival of the fitest", and if they are not fir to survive, then simply allow them to perish. Over-population would be remedied by Mother Natures age old directive. <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0">
As we both KNOW, Mother Nature REALLY gets pizzed when you f#ck around with her Grand Plan, and we are reaping the rewards of that fit of stupidity in the "here and now"... over-run with leeches and parasites. <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0">
Really, this acceptance of 'equality' at the lowest possible dominator is the downfall of nations, loss of language and culture...just look at what US did to both...and lack of respect for self or others...Darwin does indeed come to mind...englishman wasn't he?
Diesel
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As I eveidently didn't make clear in my first post, I think the community service thing is a good idea, as an option... those who do it would get a bit more money. But its not likely to happen.
Time to feed the hogs!
Diesel
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