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Is conscription slavery?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Imagine that there was a major world conflict and you were called up to fight. Would you go?
Furthermore, is the draft a violation of liberty as people are forced to serve the state?
Furthermore, is the draft a violation of liberty as people are forced to serve the state?
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They're paid. Therefore not slaves.
Yes, I'd go.
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori?
Bring back National Service.
National Service is a complete waste of time. Army officers hated it more than the people made to go. They said they'd rather have a smaller, voluntary force in which at least you know the people you have want to be there and are dedicated to the job than a bunch of deeply unhappy and pissed off people constantly thinking about how much they fucking hate the army.
Out of my 9 months I did 10 weeks of military training and then I was sent to the barracks hairdressers for the rest of my time. Others were asked to sweep the floor or act as plumbers or drive officers around.
That said, if I were called upon to defend my country in a war I would do so. But I would not go to fight in Iraq if I was asked.
No, because no-one is forced.
There are penalties for draft dodging, but people do have a choice.
And yes I'd go, but at 32 I suspect that I would be one of the last to be called... and I suspect that I wouldn't be a welcome volunteer either. Young and fit first, old knackers will be wanted to defend inside our borders - kind of like Dad's Army.
And if anyone says I'd make a good Corporal Jones, they'll feel the sharp end of a bayonet. "They don't like it up 'em you know"
Not true. I'd say being forced with imprisonment is being forced to join.
Furthermore, apparently young people tend to be more hot headed and oblivious of their own mortality. Older people would probably see the dangers of running up the beach as in say D-Day and would be less willing to risk themselves.
I wouldnt be keen on any military duty unless my country and family were directly threatened - which means that I would not go to Iraq.
And I'm sure that several US Draft Dodgers would disagree with you. They certainly didn't get forced into complying, otherwise they wouldn't be known as Draft dodgers, would they?
They were given a choice.
Ask Mohammed Ali if he was "forced" to comply...
Well since you don't live in the US and aren't bound by US law, why comment?
The state shouldn't force anybody to serve them, which is what the draft ultimately is.
If the choices are joining the army or being imprisoned or some other penalty then either way it is impeaching on your liberty.....
Like Al suggests I would probably join if it were to defend the country but not for a war of agression.....
A little research into the make up of the American, British and Canadian Armies (and the Free French) at Normandy might be in order. It was an older army than you seem to realize.
So, you think that you have the right to collect the benefits of the State, but the State has no right to collect from you?
I don't believe in welfare.
Besides what 'benefits' should any person give to a government?
Do you rely on the Police? Fire Service? Use the roads? The sewers? How about expect politicians to look out for your interests?
What benefit? Service when needed.
All of those are paid for through taxation (though they don't need to be). Politicians 'look out' for your interests because that is what they are supposed to do in a representative democracy. I don't understand your point.
Again that makes no sense. Who says anybody has to 'give something back' to their government?
Ah, so government is business? Well then, you won't mind when the police go to the aid of someone who pays more taxes than you first...or the fire service saves someone elses house because you just aren't a good enough customer...
Get the idea?
If there is any role for a government then its to promote law and order, hence a police force. For that action, no citizen is obligated to 'serve' the government.
In other words, you want to be served, and figure you have no obligation or responsibility to the state.
A few million thinking like you and Hitler would have launched Sea Lion.
Generally considered a liberal who uttered those words...
And the US isn't a democracy, it is a Republic.
Most who won't fight will take the benifits of the country AND enjoy the freedoms won by those who will fight.
DinkyDau
And an adulterer........
A government which wants to force some of its people to work for it does not warrant any 'repayment' of obligation.
Your vote, do you pay taxes to maintain that, or does it come with a different sort of price?
You have an obligation to yourself, your family, your neighbour and your countrymen to do what you can to maintain the rights we take for granted. That obligation, which you so blithely brush off, is to fight when your country asks. The draft would afterall only be used in an emergency. We have a standing army to rely on the rest of the time.
So, in a dire emegercy would you fight? If not then a restriction of your liberties is the only appropriate course. If you are not prepared to help maintain rights, why should you have any? Prison sounds about right. And you would get to make that choice yourself...
Rights are only individual in nature, they are not societal.
On on hand you post pro-Marxist material, and on the other, you sound like an anarchist. Which is it?
Neither. I'm a libertarian (and one who knows the limits of freedom, unlike you...
So you aquired your rights yourself did you?
Or did society bestow them upon you, and does society protect them for you?
In the event that someone tries to take them by force, will society band to gether to fight for them?
A Libertarian you are not.
http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/dgwlib.html
Note that one of the principal tenets of Libertarians is "non-interventionist" foreign policy.
Your constant pandering to Bush's warmongering blows your claim right out of the water.
A libertarian 'I am'. Most libertarians I know oppose the draft.
Go here - http://www.libertarian.org - if you want to learn about libertarian belief. Most posts I have made have been consistent with that.