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UN finds warheads in Iraq.

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
On CNN today.

U.N. weapons inspectors found a number of empty chemical warheads and another one that is still being evaluated, according to a U.N. spokesman, who said the warheads were regarded to be in "excellent condition."

The UN is also going to use US drone airplanes to look over Iraq in detail.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hmm, the skeptic in me says "yes, they are empty, so what?" but the logical course of thought would be "why would anyone want empty warheads unless they were going to fill them?"
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Empty warheads could also just be filled with conventional explosives. Wouldnt be surprised if this is just more spin being employed since "chemical weapons" is the smoking gun Bush is desperate to find.

    As someone suggested earlier though, I wouldnt at all be surprised if the US did finally plant some and then claim that they had found them.

    Any pretext for war regardless of what the UN does or does not finally decide is not beyond the forces behind the administration (i.e Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz chiefly) to contrive if need be.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    there fucking empty! EMPTY! not armed and ready to be fired. empty...just what america did'nt want to find. we knew he had them. he says he's EMPTIED them. they found them EMPTY!
    now if they found them armed and ready... but no...empty.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    mr, the chemicals are probably in a chamber under a mosque.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Little update.

    A U.S. official said on Thursday the discovery in Iraq of empty chemical weapon warheads was not the hard evidence the United States was looking for to prove Iraq possesses chemical weapons.

    Wow, what's that crashing over there. Why it's the idea that we planted these rockets.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    LOL. youre a funny one pnj!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I should always make you laugh...not angry.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You never make me angry. Exasperated perhaps but I dont have the emotional energy to actually reach anger over a public discussion forum.

    Lets just say that I like animated phraseology.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Empty warheads could also just be filled with conventional explosives. .

    Is that true? Im not really up on rocket technology so i dont know how it works..Is the basic warhead the same no matter what the payload and they just switch the internals?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    there fucking empty! EMPTY! not armed and ready to be fired. empty...just what america did'nt want to find...

    Of course, certain individuals refuse to be aware that Sadam Hussein learned from his mobile scud launchers that the way to avoid detection is to "keep it on the road". How many motorhomes are cruising around Iraq? Of course, Hussein would NEVER do anything which might undermine the faith, trust and committed loyalty which Clandestine puts in him... :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Balddog


    Is that true? Im not really up on rocket technology so i dont know how it works..Is the basic warhead the same no matter what the payload and they just switch the internals?

    No the warheads are different. A chem warhead can only be used for chem/bio. Thats what all the excitement is about. Tests will be conducted to see if agents were ever in the warheads. Iraq could be telling the truth about how old the rockets are. They could be left overs from the Iraq/Iran war. Test will confirm this. Shouldn't take to long either.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kaz, that snide remark of yours was uncalled for. I, as much as anyone, do not put any faith in Saddam. That however does not mean that I believe the Bush admin is right in their continual warmongering. I simply see the wrong of both sides and refuse to accept that America has any right to threaten unilateral action in a world in which it (and the UK) claim to uphold the principle of the rule of law.

    Once nations can simply decide that they can attack whomever they like with or without UN approval, we will have undone all the efforts of the modern era to bring our world into the framewrok of international conventions and mechanisms for peace.

    Violence as a means of conflict resolution is doomed to produce only more violence. All those who have watched the Israelis and Palestinians slaughter each other for decades shouldnt have any trouble comprehending how violence and foreign interventionism can not solve our problems without creating even more problems in its wake. Sadly, the world becomes as dull witted as a donkey when it comes to learning lessons from other conflicts in the region.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hear, hear!

    With regard to the warheads, according to BBC reports the shells were bought by Iraq (from the West apparently) in 1986, and are today past their expiration date and obsolete. I guess they're referring to the gunpowder that propells them? Does it go off after a few years?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lets also remember here that the US admin literally "took" some 8000 pages of the 12,000 page report submitted to the UN by Iraq and have refused to return them so that the UN might have full oversight of what is or is not contained therein.

    One commentator last night pointed out that whilst the UN doesnt know all of what is contained in those pages, one thing they are certain of is that one thing that is listed therein is the name of every US company that sold armaments or other military components (and dare i say Chemical and Biological agents) to Iraq.

    Another clear sign of duplicity and coverup that make this whole scenario as dirty as the day is long.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Empty warheads could also just be filled with conventional explosives.

    Actually, no. The internal design of warheads designed for use with chemical agents is significantly different from those designed for use with explosives. Shrapnel and blast effects require a different set of parameters than a chemical agent which is released in the air. Most obvious difference would be in the thickness of the warhead's skin.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Lets also remember here that the US admin literally "took" some 8000 pages of the 12,000 page report submitted to the UN by Iraq and have refused to return them so that the UN might have full oversight of what is or is not contained therein.

    One commentator last night pointed out that whilst the UN doesnt know all of what is contained in those pages, one thing they are certain of is that one thing that is listed therein is the name of every US company that sold armaments or other military components (and dare i say Chemical and Biological agents) to Iraq.

    Another clear sign of duplicity and coverup that make this whole scenario as dirty as the day is long.

    So why doesn't IRAQ just give another copy to the UN?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why does the Bush administration insist on keeping what it took without providing proper access to the UN to whom it was delivered to in the first place?

    The onus is on us Greeny, not Iraq. They complied with the UN's terms and deadlines and now Bush and co want to keep elements that implicate our own companies in the criminality being charged here under wraps.

    For you to defend that speaks volumes about how little "honour" is left in our armed services.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Why does the Bush administration insist on keeping what it took without providing proper access to the UN to whom it was delivered to in the first place?

    Sounds more like the UN is unable to take care of what has been delivered to them. Incompetent?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Incompetent, peverted, corrupt, led by the worst countries in terms of human rights, racist against America.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't know what kind of rags you read or what websites you visit (although I've a good idea) but that is the type of rubbish rhetoric about the UN we hear from ultra-right Republicans who basically don't like being told they cannot do what they please throughout the world.

    For a moment you gave me hope though: As I started to read your post telling about perversion and corruption I briefly thought you were speaking of your own government.

    Oh well!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    www.mirror.co.uk

    Who would you rail against if I weren't here. Give us a kiss.:p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, Greeny, it actually sounds just the way it is, that the Bush admin are bunch of power mad bully boys who have manipulated this whole UN process from the very start. Literally dictating to the world community what America will do with or without them is the height of hypocrisy from a country which has always insisted on the application of the rule of law and which it now thinks it can break whenever it suits our own self-interests.

    Let Bush learn to play the global game as one member of a family of nations and not as some high and mighty dictator.

    N.B. Although given the fact that he wasnt even legitimately elected but rather installed by the Florida Supreme Court should classify him as a dictator. lol.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    Incompetent, peverted, corrupt, led by the worst countries in terms of human rights, racist against America.
    whoooah...piss in the pot you just lost all credability boy.
    you realy do not have a clue about whats going down.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hehehe :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    these expersts, these very profesional inspetors, wlak up to what they know to be bio/chemic warheads and unscrew the top and have a peep inside and a quick sniff.
    now if that was me and i spotted those warheads it would have been; "seal the area men, get the bio lads down here with all thier fancy protective gear on and lets take a look at these babies". did you see them on the telly? am i imagining things? please dont tell me the camera crew asked them to do a take. it was supposedly live. is it just my imagination or was something not right there?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Somebody forgot to read the script before filming lol.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine


    The onus is on us Greeny, not Iraq...

    For you to defend that speaks volumes about how little "honour" is left in our armed services.

    Ironic, isn't it, for the clandestine one to rail on about a lack of "honour" in the military, when it is the task of the military to repair the inimitable fuck-ups of those such as the clandestine one. ;) Easier to demean and attack, than to bear the burden, isn't it?

    The "onus" is on the United States? What ever happened to Iraq abiding by the terms of the cease fire? :rolleyes:

    Perhaps the clandestine one could negotiate the unconditional surrender of the United States to the upstanding demigod, the valiant and heroic, benevolent and courageous hope of all the world who struggle against the evil imperialistic empire... Sodamn Insane.
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Kaz, that snide remark of yours was uncalled for.

    "Snide"? "Uncalled for"? :eek:

    Simply taking lessons in deportment from...

    You! :p

    Is it true that you have a personally autographed photo of Jane Fonda, and your singular goal in life is to exceed her efforts at undermining her (and your, supposed) nation?

    Praise God ~ or Allah, or whatever personification you recognize of a Supreme Being ~ that you are working "in the best interest" of the United States... would not want to witness what you would be capable of working against that nation... ;)

    Observing your efforts is quite sufficient to turn a relatively non-political person into one supporting whatever cause you do not...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    LOL. That was perhaps one of the funniest things Ive read in a long time, at least since we had the vitriole of guys like reverse to gnaw on around here.

    Obviously you dont bother to follow the thread of the argument or youd see that my reference to the onus being on us refers to the manner in which the Bush administration absconded with over 8000 pages of the report which the Iraqi's submitted in "full compliance" with their obligations as handed down by the UN resolution. They honoured their obligation with regard to the declaration and nevertheless, we have swooped in to bury any contents which might unduly implicate US companies in the crimes being charged by our government. All very neat and convenient, not to mention hypocritical.

    For my part i dont believe in organised religion of any kind so all that nonsense about allah aimed at me must be a bad case of hormones.

    Sure you dont need a lie down after that display of emotion?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Let me get this straight. You claim that a 12,000 page report was delivered to the UN, and somehow the US has managed to keep 8,000 pages of that report from the people it was delivered to.

    :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes Greenhat thats exactly what was said. Its been pointed out by quite a few commentators in the past several weeks. Instead of lambasting me, go research the matter yourself and see.

    Here's a piece to get you started (just to make it that much easier for you ol boy)...

    http://www.sundayherald.com/30195

    In fact, as i am feeling particular gracious today, here's another for you...

    http://www.charm.net/~marc/chronicle/media_ommisions_jan03.shtml
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