Visitation orders?

Former Member

Riotbf has just been told he is not allowed to see his son any more. No reason given asides that he asked to only have him one night some weekends (like once a month) so he can get stuff done that he can't get done during the week.

I suggested that he try getting his ex to go through mediation service but as he's not entitled to legal aid and mediation is £100 per session he wants to just go to court and get everything set out in writing. Plus his ex seems to like to shout and can't be reasoned with.

What kind of things should he expect? And would now be a good time to go for full custody as well or should that wait? He's got a lot in his favour because his ex has mental health issues, struggles with the one child and is trying to get pregnant again with her new partner.

Former Member

The courts will probably try and make him try ADR first, but if that really can't happen then I would suggest he needs to get good representation if he truly wants to go for full custody. I do question though, if he can only have him one day a weekend because he needs to get stuff done is he going to cope with full custody? How will he get his stuff done then? That will definitely go against him in court.

I really do think ADR would be reccomended first, the courts are trying very hard to lessen the amount of family disputes they see at the minute. He needs to get legal advice before making any moves though, a lot of firms offer 30 minutes for free as a starting point.

Former Member

Forgot to say, some forms of ADR are not legally binding so be very careful to check that. Mediation and conciliation are not binding.

Former Member

He would possibly have someone baby sit one night a week - he isn't asking to only have him one night a week he's just asking for some flexibility in when he has him. What is ADR? He's really wanting to avoid mediation because he's been told it'll cost him £100 per session. Any suggestions to what I could say which might sway him?

Former Member

ADR is alternive dispute resolution. It's things such as mediation that are reccomended by courts before taking a civil matter to court, much much much cheaper but mediation is not legally binding. So any agreement they reached would not be enforceable in a court of law if either one broken the agreement. I would really reccomend he sees a solicitor and gets advice from there, going to court will cost thousands (Assuming he has a solicitor and possible input from a family courts barrister which again I would reccomend for him to have in court) so he really needs to get some legal advice first. Contact a few solicitors firms, many do half an hour free advice and take it from there.

Former Member

He is seeing a solicitor fairly soon, but he's not to sure he's going to be able to even pay for mediation - he's getting the first session paid for by his father who is a solicitor himself.

His ex has now said he's allowed to see his son one night a week, she's totally chopping a changing.

I'm finding it really hard to remove myself from the situation emotionally

Former Member

The only worry I have about mediation is that it isn't binding, she seems like she changes her mind a lot and obviously it'd just be more hurt for the father if they went through mediation and she ignored the plan they'd come up with.

Former Member

That's what he's worried about too - with all of the changes too legal aid he's between a rock and a hard place. In order to make it legally binding he'll have to go court but if he can't afford to what the hell can he do?

Former Member

I've just looked it up, and apparently you can have arbitration for custody cases (I've only heard of it in business cases which is why I didn't mention it). Arbitration is a form of ADR that is legally binding, so it would be upheld in court if she broke the agreement. It will be more expensive than mediation, but less expensive than court.

Former Member

Info here: http://ifla.org.uk

Former Member

Not sure if that can be used to sort out anything other than financial arrangements for a child. Very confusing site!

Former Member

Ah okay I've just read through it and it seems it can't be applied to custody cases. Sorry about that miss riot, I read a news article that said it could be which is where I got the link from.
The only other thing I can suggest is if the father tries to arrange a meeting with the mother and another neutral party to try and do their own mediation. But it might not be helpful since she seems to change her mind so frequently.

Former Member

That has been done time and time again, only for her to agree on something and then decide differently days later. She's a very volatile person and the only thing that will work is something that would have legal ramifications.

So bloody difficult! I do not understand why they don't offer legal aid up to a higher level with family cases. It just leaves so many being high and dry!

Former Member

She's taking him the CSA now - she'll now get less than she did before so the extra bit will go into a child savings account for little one.

She's becoming ever increasingly unstable, and struggling with him so I'm hoping that sooner rather than later she'll hand him over to Riotbf and it'll all be sorted.

Former Member

Hey there,
Just saw this and thought I'd clarify how mediation works in family matters as there seems to be some confusion here. Although your boyfriend may have resolved this already, I still think it's useful information to know.

Arbitration, ADR and mediation are all really just the same way of saying that you will try to resolve any disputed point outside of the courts.

Mediation is still very much available for all aspects of family disputes. This includes financial and children matters.

You can find a mediator in your area using this link - http://www.familymediationhelpline.co.uk/find-service.php

Legal aid is still available for family mediation (dispute what you may hear in the media!). Your income has to fall below a certain level and you find our if you are eligible using this link - http://civil-eligibility-calculator.justice.gov.uk/

Mediation is not legally binding, but you can (through legal aid) get help from a solicitor afterwards to make any agreement legally binding by putting it in a court order. I suggest that you speak to your mediator about this and they should point you in the right direction.

Should mediation not work, you can make an application to the court. I won't go into too much detail here but I will point out that from 22 April 2014 new rules came into force and you now have to the court that you went to a mediation information assessment meeting (MIAM) before they will allow your application to proceed. There any some exceptions to the rule (e.g. where there has been domestic violence).

I hope this helps.

Former Member

Things have changed - he's now got him 2 nights a weekend most weekends and 1 night when possible. He's also seeing him one night during the week. Things seem to be constantly changing and he may still need to go to mediation but he's also having to look at moving and sorting out money stuff as well so there's a lot going on!!

Former Member

L1ttleOne wrote: »

Hey there,
Just saw this and thought I'd clarify how mediation works in family matters as there seems to be some confusion here. Although your boyfriend may have resolved this already, I still think it's useful information to know.

Arbitration, ADR and mediation are all really just the same way of saying that you will try to resolve any disputed point outside of the courts.

Sorry but this is not correct. ADR is the over all title for outside of court civil settlement, and mediation, arbitration and conciliation are all different forums. Arbitration is legally binding but is not available in this case. Mediation would not be appropriate in this case because the two parties were unable to communicate. Conciliation would be more appropriate as a concilliator gets involved, unlike a mediator.

Miss riot, Im glad things have improved since you posted.

Former Member

Ok things have gone up shit creek again - she's called me a child snatching pervert, been sending me harassing messages on fb and has told Riotbf that he can't have his son if I am around. It's made me feel like he is being forced to choose between us and I don't want to make him do that. It's actually really upsetting, and he's going to beg and borrow family members to lend him the money to get a good solicitor - I think it's a matter of time before he changes his mind and decides to go for full custody. She's smoking dope around him all the time and every time he's dropped off with his mum he screams and screams and screams.

I love Riotbf so so so very much but I'm really upset how his ex is trying to bully me into splitting up with him and trying to pull me into their arguments.

What do I do??

Former Member

For now I think you need to take a step back from being around the child. I know it's difficult but from the mothers point of view you've only been around a few months and the child deserves a relationship with the father without any "friends" involved. Whether or not she has other men involved is not your concern, if she doesn't want you to see the child yet then you need to accept that for now.

The father needs to find some solicitors, many do 30 minutes free which will be a good way to gauge if they're going to be right for the situation.

Former Member

But that's not what Riotbf wants. He can't see me at any other time so it really is a situation of his son or me that she's putting him in. I'd be happy to step back for a couple of weeks but that's not what she wants. She doesn't want me around at all...

He's found a good solicitor but he hasn't the money to pay for any further help.

Former Member

I don't think you should need to step back at all. In some situations then I would usually say respect the mothers decision but she isn't making that decision on what's best for the child, she is making that decision because that's what she wants. The child clearly likes you and he likes being with you and his dad, if he screams and screams then it doesn't sound like he likes being with his mum. Riotbf has an equal say and if he wants you around and bases that decision on the best interest of his son then you have every right to be around.

She has no say on what riotbf does anymore, she has a say on her son but she can not make the final decision and it sounds like she's using her son as an excuse to do that.