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The point I tried to make is yes, if someone comes on here posting racist material then yes they should be challenged, I'd never suggest otherwise. But when they get called out for being 'intolerant', the same can be said for the person making the accusation.
The point I make there is if a website encourages tolerance and openness, it should not be exclusive to one group or attitude.
I really don't get what you mean and tend to side with AR over this one. Personally, I found your comment about 'ethnic' drivers offensive in the 80& of drivers thread but chose not to get into a full blown arguement because of your comments on this thread. And I chose to believe that it was said out of ignorence, rather than downright racism. But if something you say even comes across as racist, or offends another member. They have the right to pull you up on it just as you have the right to defend your opinion.
I have no idea what your political views are but at the moment you seem a bit pissed off because you feel as though the majority of posters on here don't share them.
I'm certainly no racist (I've just come out of a 3 year relationship with an Indian woman) and my comment in that thread was based on a conversation I had in Leicester with a traffic cop who dealt with such issues on a daily basis.
As for political views, I have none. And 'pissed off'? Not at all
The traffic cop you mentioned sounds like an unprofessional bellend. Much like the woman on my introduction to the supermarket I now work out who warned us all to 'Watch the Polish and be wary.. because they like to steal stuff'.
I find things like that hugely depressing.
Tolerance and openness doesn't mean "put up with any old shite that comes out of someone's mouth, no matter how offensive or distasteful". Anyone who tries to claim otherwise is either being disingenuous or an idiot. I'd always defend your right to say something but part of that right is the understanding that others will rebuke you for it. If you don't like that, don't say it. Again, call it a life skill, being receptive and dealing appropriately with an audience.
As for "emotive attitudes getting you knowhere", you're wrong. Emotion gets you everywhere, especially with fundraising. Tear-jerkers get you noticed, real stories get people to fish fivers out of their wallets. Why the hell else would YouthNet use tales of adolescent self-harm in their fundraising literature?
Yes but there are those who think I am - my comment from that thread inspired 2 members to PM me with the usual "Ohhhh racist!!" messages.
In an appropriate thread I'll be happy to discuss the circumstances surrounding the conversation I had however the comments from that woman are certainly not something I'd agree with.
"I'm not a racist, I have black friends".
Hmm.
I don't think you are racist, but I think you need to consider how you come across. The fact that people are saying you are should give you some food for thought. As in all walks of life, if someone misunderstands you it is usually because you haven't communicated to them clearly enough.
As I say, if someone thinks I've misinterpreted them then correct me, I'm always happy to be corrected. But usually I haven't misinterpreted them, I've understood them perfectly, they're just whingeing because I was blunt. Diddums.
As above, I'd discuss it in an appropriate thread.
So you mean tolerance within reason? OK I get that.
No, I'm not wrong. Emotive language may well be appropriate when fund-raising but when used in an argument just makes it look like someone is running out of ideas and wants to go for the 'shock factor' rather than merit.
I think it's important to point out that I really don't care what you or anyone else thinks about me - I'm too old for that - this thread is about what we think of TheSite. I've pointed out what I consider keeps people away.
It depends what you mean by emotive language in an argument. Saying "I think you are a homophobic prick" to the example above is not emotive, it's a (blunt) statement of opinion.
Yeah but I'm just pointing out that you saying 'Yeah but I went out with an Indian woman' really isn't an adequate defence. If two seperate people privately complained about your posts in one thread then I'd take that as a hint. I'm glad you disagree with the comments the woman made but the traffic cop conversation doesn't exactly sound like miles apart.
I don't think this conversation is particularly unsuitable for this thread esp for thesite staff but am happy to leave it there.
Does it keep our target demographic away though? I mean, really, does it? The forum is moderated and where someone steps over the line it's normally edited. Helen's told me off quite a few times for being too hard in my replies sometimes. That's fine, that's life.
But really, does calling people out for nasty jokes and disrepectful opinions really keep people away? Or does it, actually, encourage people to be extremely open about things such as their mental ill-health, history of sexual abuse or self-injury? I'd say actually the community moderating shitty opinions makes the place safer, and safety is important for the people who now come here.
I wouldn't take it as a hint at all. How many others chose not to say anything? People are free to disagree with anything they choose. I know I'm not racist and so do those who actually know me (ie in real life) so I have no inclination to defend myself against such an accusation.
AR - I'm glad you're onboard about tolerance going both ways. More people on here need to remember that.
But yes, this is dragging things way off-topic and I'm sure it'll come up in a future thread.
Calling someone out on a nasty joke etc is one thing. Sending them multiple PMs, following them around the forum and trying to pick holes in everything they do and say (even if unconnected to the original subject) is different.
But you're obviously drawing on a personal experience, yet you're still here, despite being way outside the target demographic. That's why I'm questioning what you're saying.
I've never had a PM that would I'd call 'crossing the line' but yes there is one forum member here who took issue with something I once posted on here sent a few pointless messages and on various occasions over the next few months would post irrelevant rebuttals to things I responded to on here. Haven't seen this person in ages so I'm assuming they've released the bee in their bonnet.
Yes I'm still here but the time I spend between returning continues to grow. There have been times I've wanted to post questions, issues etc on here but have been put off wondering if the subsequent hassle I'll get (due to someone from the PC gang making assumptions and jumping on me) is worth it. I spend more time these days on the Digital Spy forums which has its own 'Help' section yet fewer people get down members' throats over issues. I'll not hide the fact I'm well outside the demograph here (late 30s) but the advice I've had from certain non-forum areas on here has been (and continues to be) excellent.
Further comment on the initial two questions is of course still welcome. However, I'd also like to pick up some of the other points people have raised in this thread and see if we can find any more mileage in them:
• Any thoughts on how long older posts should stay accessible for before being deleted?
• How do you feel if there is a lack of traffic/responses to your discussion? I guess building on the quality vs quantity debate that was rattling around.
• Is there anything we could do that would add clarity to what is considered an appropriate comment, or help support you if you feel you've been maligned, bearing in mind the discussion about language/tone etc?
Dislikes - well I'm not as active as I used to be and I tend to feel that most of the posts are the same kind of posts from various people who are in bad mental situations and I sometimes feel as though advice just gets repeated and/or ignored, which I think might be where some of the hostility comes from. So we just end up with a sub forum full of the same kind of threads and it gets a bit disheartening. I don't know for sure, as I don't really check that much but it's the feel that I get.
Really appreciate your feedback. I'd also just add that it's important to be sensitive to how you're talking about your fellow members on the forum - referring to people with 'bad mental situations' in this light isn't really fair or accurate. People are people with a range of insights and character to bring to the forum, regardless of their personal situation and as someone who oversees the whole picture, I would say that it's a dodgy line to go down suggesting that people are obliged to take the advice they are given. Ballerina, if you want to PM me about this then please do.
Everyone else, this thread is to talk about ways that we can collectively improve the community. Singling out groups of people for criticism is definitely not a way to go about it - particularly not in this kind of public space.
If you're 16-25 years-old and you'd like to join Mavis and others from TheSite and beyond over on the leaders network, then you're really welcome to get in touch about it.
I've only just seen this (probably didn't read the whole thread earlier, slapped wrist), I think that could work!
It probably needs a thread to get it started again, a lot of newer folk who are now very active won't have heard of it!
Sorry I didn't mean to word it like that, what I was referring to was the cases where people have come asking for advice, have been given it and then not acted on it and have come back with the same issues thus starting the cycle again. Obviously people are going to get frustrated. It might not be happening much now, I'm not sure, as I said I'm not very active these days but I know it's caused a lot of friction in the past.
How you can post something that has a major affect on your life and within hours get various different pieces of advice from all kinds of people and backgrounds.
Dislike:
Many people may not find it but I find there seems to be like an "elite" group that are really close and know each other and always give really good advice so I sometimes don't go on it in case of looking stupid or something
As long as I've been here, I've heard of new members feeling like this (and I remember it well!); do you think it's specific to TheSite or does it happen everywhere
The narcissist in you wants to see if you appear on the list of perceived elites!
I'm too old to be a leader. Probably a good thing!
I have to be honest though, I kind of agree with Ballerina. Recently the boards (I only really use the new posts button now) seem to be full of a lot of threads about mental ill health, especially disordered eating and deliberate self injury. I don't think the quantity is higher, it's just that there isn't anything else. It's starting to look as though the boards are solely for those with mental health difficulties, there doesn't seem to be much else balancing out those posts, and that is an issue.
It's such a difficult thing to balance out. People need the time and space to express their difficulties- I know I did- but it is undoubtedly an issue if that is all that is posted about. How to change things is a question I don't have an answer to.