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Islam

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is this the same Ronyvo?
    http://freefaith.myfreeforum.org/forum11.php

    Starts many discussions and rarely gets any response?



    Oh and this definitely is you Ronyvo
    http://www.jihadresistance.com/index.php?showuser=1212

    Where you blame the media for lying about a church bombing; I take it you were on about this one http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12101748
    What gives you the all knowingness to know more about the matter than any other person and eye witness? As with your views on religion, when talking about the media you seem to think that because you thought it, that you must be right.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That may be, but one must understand the history, the purpose and the message from these books.
    I asked for a verse from THE GOSPEL (the New Testament). This is where the teacchings of CHRIST are. You know Christ CHRISTIANS.
    However, the 'violence in the OT was due to the utter disobediance of the people to God. He, God was trying to discipline them at no avail, as you may know.
    Important point between the islamic violencce and the OT's is, the violence in Islam is to spread this evil system never with the OT.
    Another is, God of the Bible came to stop this violence and preached LOVE to the extent of "love your enemies". Allah of Islam message is to KILL all infidels in the world until Islam is dominant.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As I pointed out earlier, the koran is open to interpretation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ronyvo wrote: »
    That may be, but one must understand the history, the purpose and the message from these books.
    I asked for a verse from THE GOSPEL (the New Testament). This is where the teacchings of CHRIST are. You know Christ CHRISTIANS.
    However, the 'violence in the OT was due to the utter disobediance of the people to God. He, God was trying to discipline them at no avail, as you may know.
    Important point between the islamic violencce and the OT's is, the violence in Islam is to spread this evil system never with the OT.
    Another is, God of the Bible came to stop this violence and preached LOVE to the extent of "love your enemies". Allah of Islam message is to KILL all infidels in the world until Islam is dominant.

    Lol, exactly. God was "disciplining" people for not following his rules (rules such as "Worship no other god but me"). In other words, it was exactly the same situation of, "follow my religion or be subject to genocide." Well, at least the virgin girls survived so that they could be raped every night by God's followers. Combine that with the New Testament orders to spread the religion, and you get the same historical situation of religion being forcibly and violently spread to new territories. Christianity and Islam are two sides of the same coin in this respect. The recent anti-gay legislation in Uganda, for example, was entirely the brainchild of American evangelicals.

    As for violence in the New Testament, the Old Testament never contained anything as violent as the concept of eternal hell.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Are we still humouring him?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ronyvo wrote: »
    Islam is the cause of the mess around the world including their own countries. When are we going to wake up and address the problem face on?!!!

    Islam isn't the only 'problem'. The 'problem' is religion - and that includes Christianity. Considering that the USA has some of the greatest minds scientific minds in the world, the fact that your system allows shallow-minded, warmongering, ignorant 'Christians' like George Bush or Glenn Beck to float to the surface in the cesspool of US politics and comment, you have a lot more on your plate in your own back yard than than worrying about Islam.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well said
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ronyvo wrote: »
    However, the 'violence in the OT was due to the utter disobediance of the people to God. He, God was trying to discipline them at no avail, as you may know.
    Important point between the islamic violencce and the OT's is, the violence in Islam is to spread this evil system never with the OT.
    Another is, God of the Bible came to stop this violence and preached LOVE to the extent of "love your enemies". Allah of Islam message is to KILL all infidels in the world until Islam is dominant.
    [If you hear]that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock.

    Deuteronomy 13:13-15

    Not a great deal of love there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ronyvo wrote: »
    That may be, but one must understand the history, the purpose and the message from these books.
    I asked for a verse from THE GOSPEL (the New Testament). This is where the teacchings of CHRIST are. You know Christ CHRISTIANS.

    Vicarious redemption is fully immoral; it's just an episode of scapegoating that we, thousands of years later, are still meant to be grateful for.
    However, the 'violence in the OT was due to the utter disobediance of the people to God. He, God was trying to discipline them at no avail, as you may know.

    Important point between the islamic violencce and the OT's is, the violence in Islam is to spread this evil system never with the OT.

    Another is, God of the Bible came to stop this violence and preached LOVE to the extent of "love your enemies". Allah of Islam message is to KILL all infidels in the world until Islam is dominant.

    Awww - I really didn't want you to turn out to be a Christian-face.

    In your head you've partitioned off the genocides attributed to Yahweh as merely zealous parenting, that's truly brilliant.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    "...at least the virgin girls survived so that they could be raped every night by God's followers." WOW, do you blame God for the atrocities comitted by men?! So, in your opinion killers are also God's fault!!!!

    "Combine that with the New Testament orders to spread the religion, and you get the same historical situation of religion being forcibly and violently spread to new territories."
    Sorry, but you are utterly wrong. Neither the OT or the NT forcibly violently SPREAD the religion. the OT established THE LAW. Any one who break the law would be punished. Thisis like ALL countries in the world. The NT, yes Jesus requested to spread His Word, but never with violence. Show me one verse that support your view. The NT is the GRACE era. Love and peace messages are overwhelmingly stressed.
    ?You shall love your neighbor as your self. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets,? Mt22:37-40
    ?A new commandment I give you, that you love one another; as I loved you , that you also love one another, by this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for on another, John 13:34-35
    ?If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come into him and make Our home with him.? John 14:23
    ?These things I command you, that you love one another.? John 15-17

    As for Islam extreme violence is overwhelmingly stressed in the Koran. No comparison what so ever.
    ?Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.? Surah 9:29
    ?Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God?s? Surah 193
    ?O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.? Surah 5:51 & 3:28
    ?Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush?. Surah 9:5
    I advise to read both with open mind.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Isn't everything god's fault, it's all in his plan isn't it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Selective holy text quoting: refreshing and totally original.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ronyvo wrote: »
    I advise to read both with open mind.

    Are you an open-minded Christian? If so, how do you explain these 'loving' responses by Christians towards atheists? Are you lot any better than Islamic fundamentalist?

    i say kill them all and let them see for themselves that there is a God -- Paul Altum

    Shoot them. Shoot to Kill. -- Bob O'Connell

    TO ALL ATHEIST DIE AN GO TO HELL HAHA IF I COULD ID SHOOT ALL OF YOU IN THE HEAD WITH A 12GAUGE -- Joe Martinez

    thats easy shoot them -- Joseph Sneckenberg

    Shoot em. At least we know where they're going, waste of oxygen -- Casey M Jones

    Nail them to that cross then display it -- Mike Holeschek

    I thinly (sic!) we should hang the leader of that group on the cross with nails through their hands and feet, place a crown of thorns upon their head, RAM a spear through their side all after being whipped and beaten publicly! Just so they can endure what Christ did so they understand the sacrifice behind what the cross symbolizes -- Chris Dunn.


    Read the article here : http://tinyurl.com/3bzfpzb
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Our God gave us the FREEDOM of choice. He did not create robots. From the beginning, Adam and Eve, He gave them the choice to obey or disobey His rule. When they disobeyd Him, punishment is in order. In the NT Jesus gave us the choice to follow His teachings or not.
    To answer your question, our God's plan does not include evil at all. Satan is athe cause of evil.
    I said "our" God to make sure that Allah of Islam is NOT our God contrary to the misunderstanding of many.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Satan isn't a solid Biblical concept, and the story of Adam and Eve is a mythological aetiology.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ronyvo wrote: »
    Our God gave us the FREEDOM of choice. He did not create robots. From the beginning, Adam and Eve, He gave them the choice to obey or disobey His rule. When they disobeyd Him, punishment is in order. In the NT Jesus gave us the choice to follow His teachings or not.

    You should look into the latest neuroscience work that is showing we don't have free will - certainly not in the biblical sense. I suspect it won't be long before the Free Will apologetic will have to be abandoned.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If satan is evil, and your god made everything, then isn't it your god's fault that evil exists - he made it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ronyvo wrote: »
    I said "our" God to make sure that Allah of Islam is NOT our God contrary to the misunderstanding of many.

    But Allah is our God, in the same way that God is Jehovah and Jehovah is Allah. All the major religions share the same God, they all differ on how his message should be taught. How else do you explain a Jehovah's witnesses' blind refusal to accept a blood transfusion when it's perfectly acceptable to Catholics?

    I really don't know why we're humouring you, all you're doing is selectively quoting scripture, and all we're doing is selectively quoting scripture that proves you wrong. You've failed to answer any question using original thought, you're really just a robot.

    If any religion is responsible for death and destruction, it's Christianity. When Hitler massacred 6 million Jews, he had God on his side. When you Yanks dropped the nukes on Japan, they'd been blessed by a priest, every army that has ever gone to war has always claimed they've had the support of God. It's never Allah, or Buddha or the Thetans. It's always our Christian God. Weird.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    When I quote few verses from the Gospel to prove love and peace in Christianity you say selective verses. Whey you quote a verse from the OT you say you are right and I am wrong. Sorry, but you are being unfair and illogical in your thinking. I can quote more and more verses from the Gospel proving that CHRISTIANITY not neccessary CHRISTIANS is the most peaceful religion existed. Just the verse "love your enemies". Personally, I have difficulty to follow this verse, but OUR God wants to take us to the higest level of civil and humanity possible.

    What question I did not answer? And, by the way, thank you for your insult. I lived amongst Muslims for over 25 years, as a Christtian I am used to that. Are you Muslim? Try to be civil, please.

    As for your genralization about those Christians who committed atrocities agianst others they are Christians by name only.
    They are not following and adhering to the teachings of Christ, are they? So, they are not real Christians. That simple.
    The same, like a Muslim who does not kill an infidel OR befriend with one is not a true Muslim, because he does not follow Mohammad and his invented Allah's teachings.
    Those last 2 paragraphs explains without a doubt that Allah is NOT our God Jahova.
    Peace.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That may be. If we allow evil to control us that would happen. But, thank God there are many people who are fighting evil and spreading love with all their strength.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You are FREE and entiteld to your opinion.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ronyvo wrote: »
    WOW, do you blame God for the atrocities comitted by men?! So, in your opinion killers are also God's fault!!!!

    So you blame all the actions of bad muslims as being the fault of islam/allah, so how is that any different to this?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Simply, because God the creator is not Allah the destroyer.
    Well, here we are going in circles. As I said that I've started writing in the Net on 9/12/2001 educating and warning Americans of the huge danger of Islam. I got the experience enough to recognise Muslims who are disguised as non-Muslims to defend Islam.

    Why don't you read the Koran and the Gospel with open mind. By reading the Koran, you will feel hate towards men, when you read the Gospel without bias, I promise you that you will feel such peace in your heart which you have never felt before. Join those brave, honest and smart Muslims who left Islam in the Millions upon millions. Listen to the testemonies of those who converted to Christianity. I feel ashamed that they have stronger faith than I. After all, they have lost their families, relatives and friends, all their possisions and face the threat of being killed. As you may know apstasy in Islam is punishable by death. Every thing in Islam is by force.

    As I said there is no comparison.

    Peace
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Was Islam not in your god's plan?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ronyvo wrote: »
    I got the experience enough to recognise Muslims who are disguised as non-Muslims to defend Islam.

    Im not a Muslim, I'm a white british male who was christened after birth.

    How do you know with conclusive proof that you are the one that is right? It seems that most people in here seem to have put forward a solid argument to counteract your claims, all you have done is provide a circular argument.

    Can you not just accept that the pain and suffering you endured was down to bad people and not Islam, at least recognise that by slating Islam constantly you risk offending every good muslim and risk pissing of the not so good ones. Do you realise Ronyvo that is actions and arguments made by people like you who most likely make these "bad" muslims angry and want to hurt you?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Meh, you're all chatting rubbish, both sides... (except one person, who I won't mention). :yeees:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ronyvo wrote: »
    "...at least the virgin girls survived so that they could be raped every night by God's followers." WOW, do you blame God for the atrocities comitted by men?! So, in your opinion killers are also God's fault!!!!

    When they are following God's instructions word for word, I'd say he bears some resposibility, yeah. Of course the people could've recognised God for the genocidal maniac we all know him to be today and tell him to go fuck himself. But the point is that God's instructions were to kill all of the men and non-virgin women and then keep the virgins for yourself. What is thst if not a direct order from God to commit genocide and mass rape?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    1- Sorry G-Raffe, but it is obvious that you do not read my posts or you read them without thinking. That is why the circular argument.
    2- The truth hurts especially with religion. I don't care if the truth anger Muslims. I proved THE TRUTH about vviolent and hateful Islam by quoting few surahs right frrom the Koran. Did you read them?!
    3- No one here gave 'solid' argument. All just like you attack me without any grounds supporting their attacks. What do you call that?
    4- You are asking me to be silent. Your reasoning is MY PERSONAL suffering and pain.
    Ok. Please listen carefully. As I mentioned this many times:
    a- I did not write one word about Islam for 40 years, from the time I left Egypt to 2001. I kept MY pain to myself.
    b- 9/11 Attack on America by Muslims killing about 3000 innocent people, revived MY anger back. My anger is ABOUT ISLAM NOT MUSLIMS. As I said many times that I consider Muslims VICTIMS to iSLAM LIKE EVERY ONE ELSE.
    c- I used MY extensive knowledge of the Koran and hadiths to inform my fellow Americans of the huge danger of Islam.

    Educate me; how would you tell the TRUTH about a religion? Is it by the acts and behavior of the followers OR by the 'holy' book of the religion?
    Did you read the Koran? If you didn't how can you argue intellectually?
    During the first couple of years afterr 9/11 I had arguments with Muslim 'scholars', using the Koran only for our disscusions. As a result of these arguments, I collected about 40 essays and articles after a great deal of researching.
    I wanted to share these articles with you people here, but it is clear, I will find no ears anxcious to learn.
    All what I ask you is to read my response without any bias.. Ask me particular questions.
    If you are not Muslim, you are infleuenced by some. Do you know the principal of the islamic takkyia (deception)?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have a direct question for you - how is Islam the cause of our recent riots?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can blame Islam for many things around the world... but the London riots??? :confused:

    I'm ronyvo sorry but no. Just no.

    The London riots and looting were carried out by individuals of all creeds and denominations, and you can primarily blame feral youths with a materialistic and criminal attitudes (at a time of record youth unemployment).

    Sitting there in the US and seeing a riot occurring on the other side of the pond and immediately pinning the blame on Islam is just plain lazy. What if it was a riot between rival football fans? Or a riot caused by the opening of a new Tesco? Would you say the same thing? Riots occur for all sorts of reasons.
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