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Islam

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
Assuming the shooting was lawful, which in our parliamentary democracy I think we should assume; shouldn't the police release an official explanation to address the grievances that lead to the initial protest and separate legitimate protest from opportunistic criminality?

I think the police are publicly refuting the prominent justifications of rioting, I'm glad they're stating clearly than rioting is an opportunistic crime and not an alternative form of protest.

Okay, here it is. I know that, that may cause an attack agnst me.
However, I believe that Islam is the hidden casue of these riots.
The English have been bombarded with the forceful islamic agenda, shariaha, halal this and halal that, the crimes committed by young Muslims who believe that raping young british girls is their spritual duty. They (the British) felt that they are losing their country and identity, which I think they would be right in their assessment. Their frustration was buiding up for years, but of course, they have been misled by tergeting their own people.
Islam is the cause of the mess around the world including their own countries. When are we going to wake up and address the problem face on?!!!
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Considering the number of people involved in the rioting who were white and non muslims, then I think you are beginning to take things a little out of context.
  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Listening Ear
    ronyvo wrote: »
    Okay, here it is. I know that, that may cause an attack agnst me.
    However, I believe that Islam is the hidden casue of these riots.
    The English have been bombarded with the forceful islamic agenda, shariaha, halal this and halal that, the crimes committed by young Muslims who believe that raping young british girls is their spritual duty. They (the British) felt that they are losing their country and identity, which I think they would be right in their assessment. Their frustration was buiding up for years, but of course, they have been misled by tergeting their own people.
    Islam is the cause of the mess around the world including their own countries. When are we going to wake up and address the problem face on?!!!

    This is suspicion based on bigotry rather than fact, an opportunistic excuse to promote further hatred for a religion that you have no tolerance for. Unless you can learn some tolerance and refrain from posting about Islam in this way, then I'm afraid there's no place for your posts here.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ronyvo wrote: »
    Okay, here it is. I know that, that may cause an attack agnst me.
    However, I believe that Islam is the hidden casue of these riots.
    The English have been bombarded with the forceful islamic agenda, shariaha, halal this and halal that, the crimes committed by young Muslims who believe that raping young british girls is their spritual duty. They (the British) felt that they are losing their country and identity, which I think they would be right in their assessment. Their frustration was buiding up for years, but of course, they have been misled by tergeting their own people.
    Islam is the cause of the mess around the world including their own countries. When are we going to wake up and address the problem face on?!!!
    Are you going to point out:

    1. The statistics that show a direct connection between Islam and rape in the UK
    2. What exactly this 'Islamic agenda' is.
    3. Where in the Koran is says that rape is a spiritual duty.
    4. How Islam is causing any more harm globally than Christianity.
    5. How we are losing out identity as British people?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Don't worry yourself Namaste; I had a little look on google earlier and the same username keeps on popping up in regards to anti-islamic "bile".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    Don't worry yourself Namaste; I had a little look on google earlier and the same username keeps on popping up in regards to anti-islamic "bile".
    Yeah, I can't tell if the posts are genuine, or a shit joke.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think they are genuine if misguided.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ronyvo wrote: »
    Okay, here it is. I know that, that may cause an attack agnst me.
    However, I believe that Islam is the hidden casue of these riots.
    The English have been bombarded with the forceful islamic agenda, shariaha, halal this and halal that, the crimes committed by young Muslims who believe that raping young british girls is their spritual duty. They (the British) felt that they are losing their country and identity, which I think they would be right in their assessment. Their frustration was buiding up for years, but of course, they have been misled by tergeting their own people.
    Islam is the cause of the mess around the world including their own countries. When are we going to wake up and address the problem face on?!!!



    You're an idiot.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, I have to admit that you maybe right.
    Being born and raised in an islamic country as a Christian left a huge genuine scar. I apologise for this post.

    I was threatend to be tolerant to Islam or be banned.
    Well, I cannot be tolerant to Islam. This would be hypocrisy. My extensive knowledge and personal experiance with this system is overwhelming. My love to this country (USA) forbids me from being tolerant to such an evil system. I am ready to support what I said here with FACTS.
    Besides, I thought that we are still enjoy the freedom of speeach. I did not use any slure language. Did I? I was called 'idiot'. Is this is acceptable in this site? Not that I am complaining, just a point.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ronyvo wrote: »
    Well, I have to admit that you maybe right.
    Being born and raised in an islamic country as a Christian left a huge genuine scar. I apologise for this post.

    I was threatend to be tolerant to Islam or be banned.
    Well, I cannot be tolerant to Islam. This would be hypocrisy. My extensive knowledge and personal experiance with this system is overwhelming. My love to this country (USA) forbids me from being tolerant to such an evil system. I am ready to support what I said here with FACTS.
    Besides, I thought that we are still enjoy the freedom of speeach. I did not use any slure language. Did I? I was called 'idiot'. Is this is acceptable in this site? Not that I am complaining, just a point.

    Firstly this is a UK based website not USA.

    Although the level of persecution you faced was perhaps quite severe, how is the concept of the bad treatment you received as a christian in a Muslim country any different from the way you are now treating Muslims in a mainly Christian based country? Rather hypocritical non?

    The only facts you have given on these boards is your personal experience and how it applies to YOU alone. You have not given any facts to support how Islam is an inherently evil religion. Islam I would argue had pretty much nothing to do with why the London Riots occurred, and that is why someone called you an idiot, because to suggest that very fact that Islam was the cause of those riots is frankly idiotic.

    Yes you do have freedom of speech, you are free to say what you wish. However that doesnt mean you can say whatever you want without getting in trouble because of it.

    I understand you suffered at the hand of followers of Islam in the country you were first brought up in, but have you ever stopped to think that these might have just been bad people who twisted Islam for their own means, and that Islam wasnt the core problem and it was infact bad people? I would think this is the case as I just happen to be sat opposite a Muslim in the UK, who as a follower of Islam is disgusted at how you were treated when you were brought up. He says it makes him ashamed to be a Muslim when he sees things like that.

    So please Ronyvo please can you stop generalising and painting everyone with the same brush, not all followers of Islam are the same. By the very fact that you post this kind of discussion all over the internet tells me that you are almost like a child having a tantrum trying to get anyone you can to listen to you. Your behaviour on here has been frankly borderline on racist and by condemning all Muslim people and followers of Islam to your bile of hatred, you are no better than them when some (but not all) Muslims treated you badly.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    For interest, a view on how members of the East London mosque responded.

    Caveat: a 2-min segment on the telly is not a solution to anything, and this doesn't directly counter things that have been said here, but I found it interesting anyway.
  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Listening Ear
    ronyvo wrote: »
    Well, I have to admit that you maybe right.
    Being born and raised in an islamic country as a Christian left a huge genuine scar. I apologise for this post.

    I was threatend to be tolerant to Islam or be banned.
    Well, I cannot be tolerant to Islam. This would be hypocrisy. My extensive knowledge and personal experiance with this system is overwhelming. My love to this country (USA) forbids me from being tolerant to such an evil system. I am ready to support what I said here with FACTS.
    Besides, I thought that we are still enjoy the freedom of speeach. I did not use any slure language. Did I? I was called 'idiot'. Is this is acceptable in this site? Not that I am complaining, just a point.

    I'm aware that we can't change the beliefs you have based on personal experience, nor would we try to. All I'm saying is that if you want to continue to be a member of TheSite.org, then it's important to recognise that you can't go throwing around random blame at British Muslims simply because you personally believe it is an evil system. You can argue until you're blue in the face from a personal point of view that you believe Islam is an evil system, but you still need to acknowledge that is personal opinion that will cause insult and offence to others in the UK who live happily and peacefully as Muslims. For the record, some of these people actually work at TheSite.org and are moderators of TheSite.org - and I can say categorically that they are not evil. :d

    P.S - not that my final remark relates to whether or not you should diss Islam or not - just thought I'd mention it as an example of how other people can have personal experiences that differ to yours.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ronyvo wrote: »
    I am ready to support what I said here with FACTS.

    Bring it on :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    1- I have already apologized for my post about the riots in England by saying that those young English people acted upon frustration from the forceful islamic pressure. So, what else do you want from me?
    2- I have never said that all MUSLIMS are bad or violent. Please, do not put words in my mouth. Actually, I consider Muslims victims of Islam like every one else.
    3- I write in many forums, I don't remember that I've given you ONLY my personal experience. However, if I have, because I assumed that you people know already about the barbaric atrocities against the Christians in the Islamic countries. Well, it seems that you don't or do not wish to know for mysterious reasons. One does not have to follow the news, it is all over the place. Remeber 7/7 in England?!
    4- As for ISLAM I don't apologize or retreat from what I said. Here are some surahs right from the Koran:
    ?Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.? Surah 9:29
    ?Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God?s? Surah 193
    ?O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.? Surah 5:51 & 3:28
    ?Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush?. Surah 9:5
    ?O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.? Surah 9:123
    ?And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every king of) worship is for Allah (alone).? Surah 2:193
    These are just a few samples. I was forced to study the Koran in Arabic by Imams from Al-Azhar university.
    That means I know Arabic very Well. I have a copy of the Koran one column in Arabic beside a column in English. The translation is not 100% correct, but the violent and extreme hatred message cannot be escaped.

    AGAIN, I am not painting all the followers of Islam with the same brush.
    Do you have any idea about what is happening in Egypt in particular? This is really general knowlege
    The Copts (the Christians of Egypt) are being killed; their churches, homes and businesses burned, their young girls kiddnaped raped and either converted to Islam or killed. The Copts have been treated this barbaric islamic way for over 1400 years.
    If it makes you happy to call me idiot or racist, that is fine. I have been called much worse. I agree that I am a racist AGAINST ISLAM. And I have a good reason. But to ask me to stop writing the TRUTH about Islam, sorry that will not happen.

    Lastly, just for your knowledge people are listening to me and of course there are those who do not want to learn fight me. That is understandable.
    Peace.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ronyvo wrote:
    2- I have never said that all MUSLIMS are bad or violent. Please, do not put words in my mouth. Actually, I consider Muslims victims of Islam like every one else.

    Well the way you come across on these boards doesn't point out your viewpoint about the Muslims who are not bad and evil. You just rant on about the evil ones so much that it gives the wrong impression I guess.
    ronyvo wrote:
    3- I write in many forums, I don't remember that I've given you ONLY my personal experience. However, if I have, because I assumed that you people know already about the barbaric atrocities against the Christians in the Islamic countries. Well, it seems that you don't or do not wish to know for mysterious reasons. One does not have to follow the news, it is all over the place. Remeber 7/7 in England?!

    Once again, the level you have gone on about your personal experiences, it sometimes seems that you are unwilling or unable to accept any other viewpoints. You appear to get riled up when someone posts something you don?t agree with, this is a place for debate and discussion and frankly you have not once tried to sensibly use the facts that you speak of to back up your argument.
    ronyvo wrote:
    4- As for ISLAM I don't apologize or retreat from what I said. Here are some surahs right from the Koran:

    I mentioned in an above post that it was more than likely bad people that you had experiences with, not a bad religion. It might well be that a person or persons interpretation of Islam is at fault, not Islam itself.

    I will talk through these surah's one by one.
    ronyvo wrote:
    Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.? Surah 9:29

    Where above does it say that followers of Islam are to beat, hurt, kill, harm, intimidate anyone? All it says it 'fight' until people are submissive. You can fight with words, and submission can mean something Ronyvo that you need to learn, eg: admitting that you can be wrong. People in this day and age all around the world fight for their rights, which is pretty much what is being said above, I hazard a guess that many of them don?t involve violence. Consider this post as me "fighting" to make you submit!
    ronyvo wrote:
    Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God?s? Surah 193

    Again I ask, depends what you mean by ?fight? doesn?t it, it doesn't say specifically be violent or hurt people, or even be mean.
    ronyvo wrote:
    ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.? Surah 5:51 & 3:28

    All that says to me is that you shouldn?t rely on Christians and jews as friends and protectors because they are friends and protectors of each other already. So what if you are one of the people that turns to Christians and you become one of them? Does that really sound so bad on the face of it?
    ronyvo wrote:
    Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush?. Surah 9:5

    I found several different translations of the above Surah, many of which differed greatly on how violent the passage seemed, it said to slay the pagans (non belief of the words major religions). I did find a similar extract to the above, but it seems that you forgot the rest of the surah as well (you have been editing to suit your needs), and it reads as such but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

    So really what they are saying is for those who don?t follow the major religions of the world, if they start to pray and give charity, then Allah is a forgiving god! You have to remember that Allah is the same God as that of Christian blokes, its just that followers of Islam believe that Jesus was another in a long line of prophets.
    Ronyvo wrote:
    you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.? Surah 9:123

    All that above says to me is that god will be on your side and give you strength to fight non believers.
    Ronyvo wrote:
    That means I know Arabic very Well. I have a copy of the Koran one column in Arabic beside a column in English. The translation is not 100% correct, but the violent and extreme hatred message cannot be escaped.

    As I have said many times in this post, it is not necessarily the words that cause the problem; it is how you interpet them. Even so; you have even admitted that some of the meaning and context can be lost in translation as well. Someone saying that I should fight for what I believe in, doesn?t mean in my head that I go around being violent and actually fighting and hurting people.
    ronyvo wrote:
    If it makes you happy to call me idiot or racist, that is fine. I have been called much worse. I agree that I am a racist AGAINST ISLAM. And I have a good reason. But to ask me to stop writing the TRUTH about Islam, sorry that will not happen.

    Yes you have good reason to feel the way you do, and yes we can ask you to stop being racist because it is actually against the law. The fact that you behave in the way you do by saying what you have about Islam (your own personal views) and trying to pass it off as THE TRUTH is effectively persecution of Muslims and Islam which is unjustified, and I would argue that it makes you no better than the people that have mistreated you in the past. Remember that an eye for an eye would make the world blind. The Koran itself says that Allah is a forgiving god, so how come it seems that Islam is the more tolerant of viewpoints compared the you Ronyvo who is ranting on like a mad man. Please can you stop posting in here, and thank you for derailing the London riots debate. People have lost their lives, their homes and their livelihoods and we were nicely having a discussion about it till your bile putrid hate for Islam came swanning in here. Islam was hardly mentioned in this thread till you came along. I think you have to post your hatred towards Islam all over the internet because everywhere you go, people get sick of you, have you not learned by now? Kindly sod off.

    I also draw the attention of board users to the following post; the sort of guidelines for this place.
    http://vbulletin.thesite.org/showthread.php/28758-Some-rules-for-the-politics-forum?p=370839#post370839
    In particular;
    2. Racist, hateful, defamatory or otherwise illegal posts are not suitable.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ronyvo wrote: »
    But to ask me to stop writing the TRUTH about Islam, sorry that will not happen.

    .

    Well, actually it will happen. You're trying to incite hatred against a religion. You're based in the USA, this site is based in the UK and our freedom of speech laws are a hell of a lot more different to yours. Your initial post was the allegation that the riots were started and conducted by Muslims.
    I helped police the riots in my city, and I can tell you, the vast majority of the rioters were either white or afro-carribean teenagers. How do I know there weren't many Muslims? Because it's fucking Ramadan and they're all on a fast. For a muslim to go out and engage in criminal activity, especially during Ramadan is a big no no.

    In fact, after doing my job for 8 years, all of the Muslims I've met have been polite, friendly and respectful, far more so than their "Christian" counterparts.

    As for your rhetoric, you've joined a site aimed at British teenagers/adults. Most of us here aren't stupid enough to fall for it, we can see you for what you are. A hatefilled, ignorant twat. Now either tone it down, or leave.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I would suggest that commenting on the causes of the riots when you clearly have absolutely no idea what was going on is a little foolish.

    You obviously have very strong personal feeling towards Islam, but when sharing these in a public forum you need to carefully consider what you write. Currently your attitude is no better than those you criticise.

    It would also serve you well to remember that Islam doesn't have a monopoly on religious fundamentalism and you would do well to remember that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    While Ronyvo clearly suffers, at best, from a touch of the polemics, let's not rush to the other side of the extreme and pretend like there ain't nowt wrong with any of the tenets and doctrines Islam contains. That's just as dumb.
    G-Raffe wrote:
    I did find a similar extract to the above, but it seems that you forgot the rest of the surah as well (you have been editing to suit your needs), and it reads as such but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

    Oh, Death OR conversion, phew you really pulled that quote back around to something peaceful and reasonable! ;)

    Only for religion would you get people trying to justify the calling for of death so egregiously.
  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Listening Ear
    While Ronyvo clearly suffers, at best, from a touch of the polemics, let's not rush to the other side of the extreme and pretend like there ain't nowt wrong with any of the tenets and doctrines Islam contains. That's just as dumb.

    Sure, this highlights that when someone has such fundamentally extreme views against a religion, it makes it really difficult to have a constructive discussion about the genuine problems there might be as we spend too much effort trying to explain why it's negative to be so damning of such a wide population of believers. At this stage I don't think anyone is trying to say Islam is flawless, people are just trying encourage ronyvo to come to terms with the fact that his level of hatred is not only wasted in this forum, but is also a waste of his own energy. As he says: "I am a racist against Islam" - where do you go from there? (genuine question).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    **helen** wrote: »
    Sure, this highlights that when someone has such fundamentally extreme views against a religion, it makes it really difficult to have a constructive discussion about the genuine problems there might be as we spend too much effort trying to explain why it's negative to be so damning of such a wide population of believers.

    I completely agree. And this probably isn't the thread for this debate as even inferring a link between the London riots and Islam is patently absurd. All I'm attempting to highlight is that reasoned and measured discourse is best way to attempt to makes someone's views less polemic - if there is a way at all to temper Ronyo's view - and that jumping to the opposite extreme is actively counter-productive. Parallels can be drawn with the immigration debate: if one just shouts loudly "all immigration is all good all the time" to the people who express concerns over immigration then you can't be surprised that people stay polarised.
    At this stage I don't think anyone is trying to say Islam is flawless, people are just trying encourage ronyvo to come to terms with the fact that his level of hatred is not only wasted in this forum, but is also a waste of his own energy. As he says: "I am a racist against Islam" - where do you go from there? (genuine question).

    You point out his category error and continue being measured and calm. As with most heated discussion changing Ronyo's beliefs isn't a likely outcome, but people observing the debate are more likely to benefit if at least one side is reasoned.
  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Listening Ear
    Parallels can be drawn with the immigration debate: if one just shouts loudly "all immigration is all good all the time" to the people who express concerns over immigration then you can't be surprised that people stay polarised.

    So true. :yes:
    You point out his category error and continue being measured and calm. As with most heated discussion changing Ronyo's beliefs isn't a likely outcome, but people observing the debate are more likely to benefit if at least one side is reasoned.

    Nicely put. :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I just hope I didnt make all your heads hurt with my epic post of d00m above!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You point out his category error...

    te he
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    **helen** wrote: »
    As he says: "I am a racist against Islam" - where do you go from there? (genuine question).

    You don't, at least not when you look at the reasons why. Logic will never over come an emotional response like you have seen here. Even pointing out the hyopcrisy and the reason for the position - A christian persecuting Muslims, because he was once persecuted by Muslims/That The Bible contains many passages calling for violence against others - will make no difference.

    There is no intention to engage, so there is no point in trying to. It's like trying to debate immigration with Nick Griffin.

    The benefit isn't in trying to change the racists view. The benefit is in trying to convince the audience (other users reading the debate), that the racist is wrong, ill informed and illogical. That it is better not to follow his views but to realise that there is only one race worth fighting for - Human Race - and that we all have to share this planet together. We can either live our lives motivated by hatred, or by love. IME It's the latter than live a happy life.

    This is why censorship doesn't work. It just grants more ammunition to the racist cause - "Look, they won't even let us talk about it". Better to debate, show the holes in the argument.
  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Listening Ear
    Appreciate that fully.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    1- Do you notice that I've not call you names like you did? I wonder who is the "hatefilled, ignorant twat"!!! Note please, these are NOT my words, they are yours.
    2- Please, read my initial post again. I did not say that the riots were "started" and "conducted" by Muslims. I said that the English who were rioting have been so frustrated by the crimes committed by Muslims, which lead them to riot. Besides, I apologised a couple of times for that post. Who is the hatefilled here?
    3- I do not care if you worked with the police or not, that does no mean anything. Do you want to tell me that the police personell know what Islam is all about?!
    4- Yes, I hate Islam not MUslims. If you really know what Islam is all about, and you should, you would feel the same as well.
    5- I believe you that you met many Muslims who are friendly. I have few Muslim friends. As I said, and I say it again, I do not hate MUSLIMS, actually, I feel that they are victims of Islam like every one else, but i dispise ISLAM for what it teaches.
    6- In Egypt during Ramadan few Copts (Christians of Egypt) have been attacked some have been killed and young girls kiddnaped and raped. Ramadan ora not it is the SPRITUAL rquirement of a Muslim to commit atrocities against the infidels. Iff yuo want me to suppoprt what I said witth FACTS (surahs ffrom the Koran), let me know.
    7- as for your remark "In fact, after doing my job for 8 years, all of the Muslims I've met have been polite, friendly and respectful, far more so than their "Christian" counterparts." Is very irresponsible one.
    The holy book of a religion is the only basis to judge a religion and not those who break its commandments. Think about that with out bias, if you want to lean what is really going on in the world.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Firstly can this discussion be taken elsewhere, Islam has nothing to do with the London riots and all Ronyvo has done is distract this thread from the discussion at hand.

    1. I wouldnt say the people on here were hatefilled, just pissed off with the constant racist barrage from yourself Ronyvo.

    2.British frustration against Muslims was not the cause of the riots, people from all walks of life and religions were involved.

    3. So you are pretty much saying you dont care what others have done, or what they know. If that is the case then why should we take any of your words for face value, or care about your personal experiences.

    4. I can understand you hate islam so much, but since it is what law abiding and considerate muslims follow, then you are risking offending every single one when you waffle on in the way you do. How about the suggestion that it cant be islam to blame (as many muslims behave in a lawful and considerate manner) but in fact what I have suggested earlier on; that its bad people twisting islam to suit their own needs. Islam is a car, if it kills someone it isnt the cars fault, it is the people who drive it who are to blame.

    5. You cant justify your argument by saying you have many muslim friends who are nice people, and then slag off the religion that they follow. These good muslim friends of yours follow islam too remember.

    6. We live in the UK not Egypt, I know events like that occur, but if it was all the fault of Islam then why does it not happen constantly all over the world ALL the time. You cant condemn all of Islam by using examples from another part of the world. Yes I think Islam could potentially be to blame in some cases if taken at literal value; but Id say on the whole that most Muslims are good law abiding people. Since this is likely the case, you cant hold the actions of a worldwide minority against the rest of them.

    7. The remark you talk about is actually very responsible and I dont understand how you can take it to be an irresponsible one?
    Ronyvo wrote:
    The holy book of a religion is the only basis to judge a religion and not those who break its commandments.

    That is such a wrong comment to make, on so many levels. If you honestly believe that you should judge an entire religion on its religious documents. Then surely we should be entitled to be hateful towards you because we are taking your racist comments at face value.

    You can argue till you are blue in the face, but if you stepped foot on UK soil then it would be highly likely that you could be arrested for the comments you made on here, if you spoke them out loud to a police officer.

    I know you have been treated very badly in the past by followers of Islam, but the way you come accross on here, makes you not better than the people who mistreated you. Can you not see that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    These posts have been moved into a new thread away from discussion about the London riots. These actions have been undertaken due to the subject matter at hand having little if no direct connection with the London riots.

    Regards,
    Anti-Spam
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In debating one must defrintiate between opinion and fact. In religion it is easy to do that. Why? The holy book of a religion would be the basis of facts.
    For instance, Startkibartfast, have some good points. Hoever, stated "The Bible contains many passages calling for violence against others - will make no difference." My request would be give me some facts "verses" from the Gospel which, is calling for violence against others.. I asked for the Gospel, because it contains the teachings of Christ (Christians).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The bible in my eyes cant be taken as fact, because I dont think the world was created in 6 days.
    At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well. Pharaoh and all his officials and all the Egyptians got up during the night, and there was loud wailing in Egypt, for there was not a house without someone dead.

    How is that for a violent passage from the bible?

    I think your problem Ronyvo is that you take religious books at their face value, which in my opinion is wrong to do.
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