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Pedo priests

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just to point out that claims around rape and abuse during Katerina are extremely questionable -

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/sep/06/hurricanekatrina.usa3

    Worth watching 'When the Levees Broke' as well
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I suspect the idea that someone can be turned into a paedophile is as ridiculous as the idea that someone could be turned gay. There might be a handful of paedophiles that are attracted to the priesthood because it got them access to children, but I'm dubious that there would be a significant number of people who would go through all that training on the off chance that they'll be put in the care of children. There are far easier ways to go about it. But as Jim points out, that doesn't mean that we can neglect the likelihood that systems were in place that facilitated and encouraged abusive behaviour.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I suspect the idea that someone can be turned into a paedophile is as ridiculous as the idea that someone could be turned gay. There might be a handful of paedophiles that are attracted to the priesthood because it got them access to children, but I'm dubious that there would be a significant number of people who would go through all that training on the off chance that they'll be put in the care of children. There are far easier ways to go about it. But as Jim points out, that doesn't mean that we can neglect the likelihood that systems were in place that facilitated and encouraged abusive behaviour.

    But you need to define 'peadophile'. Is it someone who has a lifelong perversion for kids, or is it just someone who abuses kids? If it's the latter, people can be products of their environment, especially if there is no checks and balances to make sure people know its definitely wrong.

    Just like you don't need to be gay to rape someone of the same sex in prison, you don't need to be sexually attracted to exclusively children (I don't think there is a sexual orientation towards kids really) to abuse them.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Paedophile is already defined. It's an attraction to prepubescent children. It's not an attraction to teenagers, nor should it be used interchangeably with "child abuser." You can be a paedophile without being a child abuser, and you can abuse children without being a paedophile. Not that that will stop the newspapers, of course.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, you see my point anyway, even if you dont agree! It may be the case that some of these priests are only child abusers who get a kick out of the power rush, and in fact if they were not in an environment where it was systematically 'allowed' (to a degree) they would not have done it. Rather than being fully fledged peadophiles!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be far more likely, though I'm not arguing this myself, that someone who was attracted to abusing people would take a position where they were aware this was possible?

    However I'm also much more likely to believe that being a member of an abusive system makes a person more likely to be abusive - something where the actual nature of the system seems less relevant.

    ^^^This
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Paedophile is already defined. It's an attraction to prepubescent children. It's not an attraction to teenagers.

    Now, that is not what I was told by the police. I am not prepubescent, I am (almost) a teenager. I was raped, and the police told me if he was convicted he would be classed as a paedophile. He also raped one of my friends, who is older than me, and she was told the same thing.
    However, he was not convicted and therefore is not classed as a paedophile.
    Xx
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes he would. Because of your age, not because of the attraction.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've always thought paedophilia is the attraction to power over children, making them do what you want. Rather than molesting them sexually/physically.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I understand a paedophile to be someone who is sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Now, that is not what I was told by the police. I am not prepubescent, I am (almost) a teenager. I was raped, and the police told me if he was convicted he would be classed as a paedophile. He also raped one of my friends, who is older than me, and she was told the same thing.
    However, he was not convicted and therefore is not classed as a paedophile.
    Xx

    I think the difference there is whether it is paedophilia by law, which is under 16, or paedophilia by what the word means, which applies to prepubescents.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    I understand a paedophile to be someone who is sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children.

    :yes:

    After paedophilia, hebephilia is the sexual preference for earlier pubescent individuals and the attraction to mid to late aged teenagers is called ephebophilia.

    Paedophilia is often used to refer to sexual interest in minors below the legal age of consent, which isn't always strictly accurate.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not aware of any legal use of the term paedophile. I could be wrong.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote: »
    After paedophilia, hebephilia is the sexual preference for earlier pubescent individuals and the attraction to mid to late aged teenagers is called ephebophilia.
    That last one refers specifically to people who are only or mainly attracted to people of that age though, because everyone is to some extent (even if we won't admit that anyone is attractive until midnight on their 16th birthday :p).

    Jesus Christ, The Times have got a fella reporting on this called Roger Boyes. You really couldn't make this shit up.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You're right that there's no specific legal use of the term in the 2003 Sexual Offences Act. That break downs offences depending on whether the victim was under 13 or over 13. There as specific offences that look at the younger age group (Rape/Assault of a child under 13, etc) and then about that age the more general offence of Sexual activity with a child is may be used (although those offences also include sentencing to cover under 13 year olds) or the general offences (rape, etc) where the age of the victim would be reflected in the sentencing.

    Sexual activity with a child obviously covers times where a rape/assault charge wouldn't be appropriate.

    There are also a number of additional offences related to anyone below 16 around commissioning/inciting sexual behaviour, abusing positions of trust, etc. It's all quite complicated but yeah - the law doesn't use any definitions around the sexual desires of the person committing the crime.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not aware of any legal use of the term paedophile. I could be wrong.

    I wasn't saying that using the word 'paedophile' was a legal term but when you hear people either talking or reporting about under age sex offences, they usually refer to the word regardless of of what age the victim actually was.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Times

    Check out who wrote the article :lol:

    Joke ?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    Yes he would. Because of your age, not because of the attraction.

    Yes, but I am not prepubesent. Puberty has nothing to do with age really. Everyone is different.
    Xx
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Shouldn't the issue be ...what is going to be done about these perv priests and this disgusting organisation that has abused tortured and killed people in all manner of ways throughout it's history?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Shouldn't the issue be ...what is going to be done about these perv priests and this disgusting organisation that has abused tortured and killed people in all manner of ways throughout it's history?

    Like any other person, the priests guilty should be brought to account through the justice system.

    Like any other organisation with systematic failures, it should be broken open to wider scrutiny. The Church, as in the Catholic Church, as an institution, surely belongs to Catholic people rather than the pope or some elite. They should change it so that all this backdoorsy dealing is done away with.

    If someone is accused, then it should be referred to the criminal authorities, and the church should assist in their investigation in any way they can. The accused should temporarily be suspended from working with children and vulnerable adults while the investigation is carried out. Further to this, I think the Church, recognising there is a systematic failure to adequately deal with this kind of thing, should offer some form of compensation to all those they have failed in their duty of care, and also they should set up a branch that is independent from the rest of the church to specifically deal with complaints of a serious nature.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »

    Like any other organisation with systematic failures, it should be broken open to wider scrutiny. The Church, as in the Catholic Church, as an institution, surely belongs to Catholic people rather than the pope or some elite. They should change it so that all this backdoorsy dealing is done away with.

    But the pope is chosen by GOD to lead the catholic church - what the members of the church want, or even the laws of the countries they operate in are a very poor second to that.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    Like any other person, the priests guilty should be brought to account through the justice system.

    Like any other organisation with systematic failures, it should be broken open to wider scrutiny. The Church, as in the Catholic Church, as an institution, surely belongs to Catholic people rather than the pope or some elite. They should change it so that all this backdoorsy dealing is done away with.

    If someone is accused, then it should be referred to the criminal authorities, and the church should assist in their investigation in any way they can. The accused should temporarily be suspended from working with children and vulnerable adults while the investigation is carried out. Further to this, I think the Church, recognising there is a systematic failure to adequately deal with this kind of thing, should offer some form of compensation to all those they have failed in their duty of care, and also they should set up a branch that is independent from the rest of the church to specifically deal with complaints of a serious nature.

    And if the Vatican fails to live up to its responsibilities as a UN member state, it should be subject to sanctions. Starting with a ban on operating any facility with a duty of care to children throughout the EU. We can't have a situation where schools and adoption agencies are run by an organisation that to this very day will do anything to avoid an open investigation into abuses.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Calvin wrote: »
    The Times

    Check out who wrote the article :lol:

    Joke ?
    It took me a minute to get that joke, before I realised. lmao.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    It took me a minute to get that joke, before I realised. lmao.

    I laughed too. I felt a little bit evil!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Right now, I don't think there is an organisation on earth that is more vile or full of more cunts than the fucking Vatican:

    Pope's preacher likens criticism of Pope over child abuse to the Holocaust

    Are these evil, twisted, arrogant motherfuckers having a laugh or something?

    :mad: :mad:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually he didn't - despite what the Independent says

    [Jews] "know from experience what it means to be victims of collective violence" and are thus "quick to recognise the recurring symptoms".

    Father Cantalamessa told the congregation he had received a letter from a Jewish friend who was "following with disgust the violent attacks against the Church and the Pope". His friend had written: "The use of stereotypes and the shifting of personal responsibility to a collective guilt remind me of the most shameful aspects of anti-Semitism."

    Nope - no mention of the Holocaust.

    Now it may be daft thing to say, but he's not comparing it to the Holocaust at all.

    Still I suppose that
    I don't think there is an organisation on earth that is more vile or full of more cunts than the fucking Vatican
    is an improvement your normal claims of it being the Israeli army
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Judging by the collective reporting of the incident, you appear to be just about the only person on Earth who has failed to see the Holocaust reference tbh.

    Still, no comment or opinion on the shameful behavoiur of Vatican officials then?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Judging by the collective reporting of the incident, you appear to be just about the only person on Earth who has failed to see the Holocaust reference tbh.

    Still, no comment or opinion on the shameful behavoiur of Vatican officials then?

    Well the reference is there but I didn't find the comments offensive, just perhaps melodramatic. But they weren't official comments anyway, it was from what a priest said to his sermon. It's obvious the media has caught wind of it and wants to have a field day and the overreactions do play into their hands. If anything, really it detracts from the real criticism the church should be receiving for its lack of transparency and progressiveness in dealing with the systematic abuses and cover ups.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Judging by the collective reporting of the incident, you appear to be just about the only person on Earth who has failed to see the Holocaust reference tbh.

    Still, no comment or opinion on the shameful behavoiur of Vatican officials then?

    I think he's overstating the case, but its blindingly obvious that's he's not referring to the Holocaust.

    Perhaps it just me; I suspect its because I'm not a tabloid reader and know that the history of anti-semitism is much wider than just the holocaust. A historical parrallel to me seems much more in line with the old fashioned collective guilt (ie one guilty all guilty) in line with, for example, the collective fining of Jewish villages during the Tsar or various English kings punitive taxation on Jews following arguments.
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