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America not going to the moon.

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
They can't afford the petrol for the journey so ...by the end of the year when the shuttles are scrapped ...American astronauts will be taken to the space station on Russian rockets ...under Russian control.
Hitch hiking as it were.
The Chinese are going to the moon.
The Indians are sending satellites up.
Iran has just been all over the news with their new launch and their new powerful rocket engines that went on display.
Brazil are sending up satellites.
Many Americans don't like to hear it referred to as a space race anymore.

What more proof that America is finished.
Bankrupt.
The shortest lived empire in history.
The third world have become the first.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Big projects are easy if you're collecting taxes from a billion people. It doesn't matter that half of those people are still living in poverty if you've got a nice shiny building or the most expensive Olympics in history. The richest countries in the world are Luxembourg and Norway, but you don't hear much about them, because they don't have enough people to do stupid things with their money, so they spend it on boring things like healthcare and education instead. Not that I'm suggesting that the space program isn't worthwhile, just that it's more of an international cock-measuring competition than a genuine measure of a country's development. What I do find interesting, however, is that despite decades of this free market land of opportunity, it's still the US government doing all of this space exploration, rather than some rich businessmen.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Talk about complacency!
    I grew up watching men land on the moon.
    I watched Star Trek ...in Hollywood the Americans always rule space and save the world.
    The change is stunning and even disturbing.
    The bullshit machine is crumbling ... not just Americas space ability.
    The Chinese will watch the sun set on America from the moon.
    The Iranians ...what will the Iranians be doing aye?
    They have a machine arriving there just about now.
    They say it's carrying a turtle ...maybe they know more about the elephant turtle disc world than we do?
    Being serious ...this is a massive shift in science culture art and possibly war.
    Certainly theres a huge prestige issue here too.
    Hitch hiking lifts off the commies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Most of the world seems to have been asleep while this massive shift has been happening.
    It's not an accident ...it's years of planning and hard work.
    Your children ...in fact you ...will be growing up in a very different world than the one my kids grew up in.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yep, one where China makes the most noise instead of America. And all the time, us in Europe will continue to have the highest standard of living in the world on everything that actually matters. And if we don't, fuck 'em, we're still the only ones with a black hole machine capable of destroying the world. But this empire building doesn't really concern me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yep, one where China makes the most noise instead of America. And all the time, us in Europe will continue to have the highest standard of living in the world on everything that actually matters. And if we don't, fuck 'em, we're still the only ones with a black hole machine capable of destroying the world. But this empire building doesn't really concern me.
    IWS ...you are complacent.
    You presume based on what I don't know ...that it will just carry on as normal ...forever more.
    Booms and busts ...got to school grow up buy a house blah blah.
    How many consumers do you think our shrinking resources can support?
    The resources which are all heading east ...to build space craft and stuff.
    They buy all the coal and iron and timber and coal and and and ...
    To many of you are living in a dream world or think these power shifts have little or no effect from where they are sucking that power and prestige from.
    Seismic shift in history comes to my mind.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's not that they're not going to the moon, they're not returning to the moon until NASA have developed something a bit more sophisticated than a giant firework.

    Ultimately Obama wants Nasa to be responsible for long range, inter-stellar exploration and private companies to be responsible for the development of the solar system.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What more proof that America is finished.
    Bankrupt.
    The shortest lived empire in history.
    The third world have become the first.

    I think that one must bear in mind that as China, for example, grows richer and the standard of living improves, the leadership will start to feel political pressures from their population requiring emancipation and this could well be destructive of their country in the long term. The same for India. They have tens of millions of impoverished people and there could be a drastic political shift if they do not receive any of the fruits of their new-found wealth. i.e. they could end up having as many problems as the US currently does.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wish everyone would stop trying to get to the moon, it's pointless and there are much more important things.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have to disagree. Space exploration is one of the most important things the human race could do, with beneficial results both directly and indirectly as a result.

    Anyways, if money is the issue, there are other areas where cuts can be made far more justifiably.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why do you think space exploration is important?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    Why do you think space exploration is important?

    Whilst we remain on planet Earth we are
    1.Vulnerable. If anything happens to the planet, there goes the entire species.
    2.Running out of space
    3.Running out of resources

    I can't think of any reason besides cost why we should be confined to the Earth. If the space race had never ended I think we'd be mining asteroids by now and preparing to colonise the Moon and Mars.

    The good thing about humanity is, when we put our minds to something we can usually do things quite quickly. We've accomplished more in the way of scientific and technological discovery in the last 60 years than we have in the last 2000. 2000 years ago the Sun was an object of mystery. By 2011 once the National Ignition Facility in the US has created a self-sustaining Fusion reaction we'll more or less have limitless energy in the form of a mini-sun on Earth.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The shortest lived empire in history.

    Not true. Charlemagne's empire lasted from about 768 to 814. Assuming that you are correct and ours is all but over, then we made it from about 1945 to 2010. That gives us the lead by 19 years. BOOSH!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    Why do you think space exploration is important?

    They say that necessity is the mother of invention. Going into the vacuum of space presents some very large problems which cause us to develop new technology. It's similar to how war breeds invention, except only a hand full of people get killed when you're launching them into space.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    American astronauts will be taken to the space station on Russian rockets ...under Russian control.
    Hitch hiking as it were.

    Surly this could just be said that finally one of the two largest nations of earth are finally working together? I mean you say commie etc but the cold war is over and it is time people forget that, surly this is a step forward? the fact the Russians and USA are working together on something?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, I disagree and think there are much better uses that money and boffins' minds could be put to. We're not going to be off colonising other spaces but, we are still going to have massive inequalities in standards of living for people on earth, which could have been addressed with 'space race' money.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    Well, I disagree and think there are much better uses that money and boffins' minds could be put to. We're not going to be off colonising other spaces but, we are still going to have massive inequalities in standards of living for people on earth, which could have been addressed with 'space race' money.

    I have to semi disagree, ok I approve and agree in evolving the standard of living, however space exploration has given us so much more than anyone realises.

    Space Research and development have given you

    Instant television
    Since Telstar, the first television satellite in 1962, viewers have watched events almost as they unfolded - from the assassination of President Kennedy to the terrorist assault on the twin towers in New York.

    Meteorology
    Weather forecasting was once little more accurate than folklore. Now satellites can monitor drought in Africa, floods in the Bay of Bengal and hurricanes across the Caribbean, saving hundreds of thousands of lives.

    Navigation
    Lone yachtsmen and jumbo jets now make pinpoint landfalls, and polar explorers with mobile phones can guide rescue craft to the precise ice floe, thanks to global positioning satellites.

    Fuel cells
    Invented by a Victorian barrister, the Grove fuel cell was ignored until the Apollo programme. Now German cars and Chicago buses are testing the ultimate green fuel - hydrogen, with water as the exhaust.

    The environment
    Space platforms monitor pollution, measure forest destruction, survey agriculture, identify mineral deposits, spot buried archaeological structures and even uncover agricultural fraud.

    Medical health
    Spacesuit studies have led to a panoply of health monitors, warning systems, respirators, remote microphones and other miniaturised medical technology.

    Robotics
    Space engineers have to think small - and flexible. This has inspired a new generation of tiny sensors, monitors and automaton explorers heading for distant planets.

    Materials
    Apologists always mention non-stick frying pans. But the most dramatic could be aerogel: featherlight but supporting 4,000 times its own weight. Nasa christened it "frozen smoke".

    Laptops
    Space missions needed onboard computers. But they had to be small. So space research drove the industry to pack ever more power into ever ever smaller hardware.

    Weapons
    Wernher von Braun's V2 rocket was the first thing to reach the edge of space. It changed warfare just as dramatically as it changed the peace.

    A lot of what you take for granted is because of Space technology

    oh as well as mobile phones,
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think those technologies could only ever have come about because of space technology.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Also, yes those technologies exist but, I don't think they're working.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    I don't think those technologies could only ever have come about because of space technology.

    Satellites?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    I don't think those technologies could only ever have come about because of space technology.

    Quite a few are, eg no space technology = no satalites which means 4 of those we would not have,

    Weather reports, or Hurricaine warning systems
    Envromental, eg messuring pollutants etc
    TV
    Mobile phones

    Satalites are space technology, the rest would have taken decades, if not hundreds of years longer.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    Satellites?

    I don't know. They don't seem that important though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hellfire wrote: »
    Quite a few are, eg no space technology = no satalites which means 4 of those we would not have,

    Weather reports, or Hurricaine warning systems
    Envromental, eg messuring pollutants etc
    TV
    Mobile phones

    Satalites are space technology, the rest would have taken decades, if not hundreds of years longer.

    You don't know that though, if more money had been put in to furthering the science behind weather predictions etc, it could have resulted in the same technology, or something even better perhaps. It's all speculation though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    I don't know. They don't seem that important though.

    Depends on what you mean by important.

    GPS, Mobile Phones - just two things which make my life easier...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do they actually make your life easier or do they just enable you to keep up with life? Do they help make everybody's lives easier?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    Do they actually make your life easier or do they just enable you to keep up with life? Do they help make everybody's lives easier?

    Well, I don't get lost so often, and I can speak to my kids wherever I am...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    You don't know that though, if more money had been put in to furthering the science behind weather predictions etc, it could have resulted in the same technology, or something even better perhaps. It's all speculation though.


    but you CANT, for weather preditictions you NEED Satellites and you cant have Satellites without space exploration.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We would have mobile phones without satellites.

    There is a superior mobile phone technology based on satellites but nobody adopted it and thus the company never got money and its a bit shite these days really compared to your iPhones and shizzle.

    I know because I read a paper on it last night which wasn't very exciting.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hellfire wrote: »
    but you CANT, for weather preditictions you NEED Satellites and you cant have Satellites without space exploration.

    eh? If you funded weather predicted science and they came up with satellites then you could have satellites for weather prediction without funding the 'space race' or similar. It might have come about a different way, or something quite different might have come about.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, it doesn't work like that. We might have eventually invented all these things, but not for decades if not centuries.

    Many advances in modern technology, science and medicine are prompted by knowledge gained through space exploration and the technology needed to achieve it. There are no two ways about it.

    If you are adopting an absolutist approach to ending poverty and inequality, that's all very well. But holidays, culture, cinema, entertainment and a million other things will have to go too. At the end of the day, how could you bring yourself to enjoy a movie knowing that the money and effort wasted on the film industry could be used to save lives?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I disagree, many advances may well have been made due to space race money and efforts but that doesn't mean those technologies wouldn't have come about in any other way. Also, those technologies have come about and haven't solved the problems of the world.

    Whether the technologies that have come about due to 'space race' money and efforts have helped to improve the general conditions for humanity or not, it can still be argued that at this moment in time, it would be a better use of resources to cancel that line of enquiry and divert resources elsewhere.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm going to do a quote mash-up here to bring a little clarity to the argument.
    katralla wrote: »
    I disagree, many advances may well have been made due to space race money and efforts but that doesn't mean those technologies wouldn't have come about in any other way.
    Aladdin wrote: »
    ... We might have eventually invented all these things, but not for decades if not centuries.

    Aladdin is exactly right. The point is that huge technological leaps came because space programs generated the need for them. And they have gone on to be applied in other areas of human civilization.
    katralla wrote:
    Also, those technologies have come about and haven't solved the problems of the world.
    and neither has billions of charity dollars.
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