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A guy and a girl can never be "just friends"
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Slightly overplayed rhetoric this one, but been on my mind a lot recently so would be keen to hear your opinions.
Recently I've had a few of the most generic annoying rejections in the book - "I like you too much to date you", "We're too good friends and I don't want to ruin that", "I just want to be good friends" etc. In every case where its clear there's little/no chance of anything happening in future, I have cut all these girls off, telling them I have zero interest in friendship. Reading all the "nice guy syndrome" still stuff online, it seems like only a total chump would be friends with a girl they liked. The way I see it you have zero upside (I don't need yet another friend, I have enough) and enormous downside - how frustrating it is if you want more than friendship and that can't happen, hanging out with them is a complete waste of time when you could be meeting potential partners instead, and then even worse when they pull / sleep with / date other guys.
But then this leads onto... how can a guy and girl ever be "just friends"? Firstly, normally you need to be reasonably 'attracted' to someone to want to associate with them I'd say, if you think someone's really ugly you may not naturally want to befriend them - you may disagree but that's what its like here. Now, I'm fairly discriminate on who I'd go out with, but would pull / sleep nearly all my current female friends - I see it as harmless fun, especially kissing at clubs and stuff, its just nice and fun. Therefore friendship with any of these girls seems like a 'second best' option if really when I'm with them I'd rather more to happen than just platonic friendship.
Therefore I'm 'cutting off' a lot of girls I've always been 'friends' with and nothing more will happen despite me preferring more. I feel like a bit of a chump and used, wasting my team giving them advice for guy issues and hanging out with them to no 'upside'. I can happily have 10 or so close male friends, don't need to spend time with girls if nothing's going to happen. I only have 1 female who I'd be happy to be just friends with - because she's 4 inches taller, a couple of years older, larger but still attractive, so I don't care about nothing happening there and have zero problem her hooking up with other guys.
Curious to know if you have any good friends of the opposite sex, where the friendship has been purely platonic, and if neither of you have genuinely minded (and in fact been happy for) the other when they hook up with someone else? My harsh treatment to ignore any girl now who wants to be just friends may come across as being a bastard but all my friends agree its the best way forward, and getting 'friend-zoned' is for chumps who get wrapped round the girl's finger and walked all over for nothing in return.
"Girlfriends come and go, friendships last forever" - nah, I value relationship and sexual experience so much more than friendship. But then I'm fairly independent and can happily do stuff alone / solo at times without relying on a support network of friends.
Your thoughts / experiences on the issue, as always, appreciated. x
Recently I've had a few of the most generic annoying rejections in the book - "I like you too much to date you", "We're too good friends and I don't want to ruin that", "I just want to be good friends" etc. In every case where its clear there's little/no chance of anything happening in future, I have cut all these girls off, telling them I have zero interest in friendship. Reading all the "nice guy syndrome" still stuff online, it seems like only a total chump would be friends with a girl they liked. The way I see it you have zero upside (I don't need yet another friend, I have enough) and enormous downside - how frustrating it is if you want more than friendship and that can't happen, hanging out with them is a complete waste of time when you could be meeting potential partners instead, and then even worse when they pull / sleep with / date other guys.
But then this leads onto... how can a guy and girl ever be "just friends"? Firstly, normally you need to be reasonably 'attracted' to someone to want to associate with them I'd say, if you think someone's really ugly you may not naturally want to befriend them - you may disagree but that's what its like here. Now, I'm fairly discriminate on who I'd go out with, but would pull / sleep nearly all my current female friends - I see it as harmless fun, especially kissing at clubs and stuff, its just nice and fun. Therefore friendship with any of these girls seems like a 'second best' option if really when I'm with them I'd rather more to happen than just platonic friendship.
Therefore I'm 'cutting off' a lot of girls I've always been 'friends' with and nothing more will happen despite me preferring more. I feel like a bit of a chump and used, wasting my team giving them advice for guy issues and hanging out with them to no 'upside'. I can happily have 10 or so close male friends, don't need to spend time with girls if nothing's going to happen. I only have 1 female who I'd be happy to be just friends with - because she's 4 inches taller, a couple of years older, larger but still attractive, so I don't care about nothing happening there and have zero problem her hooking up with other guys.
Curious to know if you have any good friends of the opposite sex, where the friendship has been purely platonic, and if neither of you have genuinely minded (and in fact been happy for) the other when they hook up with someone else? My harsh treatment to ignore any girl now who wants to be just friends may come across as being a bastard but all my friends agree its the best way forward, and getting 'friend-zoned' is for chumps who get wrapped round the girl's finger and walked all over for nothing in return.
"Girlfriends come and go, friendships last forever" - nah, I value relationship and sexual experience so much more than friendship. But then I'm fairly independent and can happily do stuff alone / solo at times without relying on a support network of friends.
Your thoughts / experiences on the issue, as always, appreciated. x
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Interesting question though. I'll say it like this. All my guy friends have qualities that I might look out for in a guy, but I am not necessarily attracted to them. But then again, I would like a decent guy so it shouldn't come as a surprise if I'd look for certain qualities, which my friends also posses.
Furthermore I like guy friends. I like their company and I like their humor and I like that they are usually more laid back than many girls (not all, but in the majority of cases). It suits me. Also there is the added benefit which you have mentioned, being that as they are boys its always nice to hear their perspective about other boys.
But I of course also have my princess moments where I like getting ready with the girls, and of course enjoy their general company as I try not to befriend drama queens (can't totally avoid it as there is always one, but try keeping it to a minimum).
Forgot to clarify, it seems clear from my experience that girls value male platonic friends a lot more than vice-versa..?
You just prove my point with that. It's cause they show you what you can't have. But then again you have to think, you can't just jump up and start kissing every fit girl who passes you.
But yeah, I think you might be right with your latter comment.
I'm the same.
One of my guy mates, I clicked with from day one. We share the same sense of humor and he gets me in so many levels. But we never had the opportunity to take it further than just friends, as either one or both of us would already be in a relationship. We've grown close, but never needed or wanted it to turn romantic.
However, I have found in the past, some of my guy mates, who I thought were good mates - were always looking for something more. That part sucks. Cause, while I understand you can't help who you like, you also can't force yourself to like someone in that way.
Now, before you say. How do you know, if you don't try - I have tried it once and it did not work for me. We were friends for a couple years. Not overly close, but we had the same friends and would talk regularly. He finally came out about how he wanted more. I give it consideration because thought he had a point about how we already do get on,etc. But it lasted a total of 2 months, because the spark wasn't there. Never was, never will be. So we went back to being friends.
Basically all I'm trying to say is, there is not definite answer. People grow close for complex reasons, but does not always mean, it should or can turn into sexual attraction/romantic.
It is late, so some of that probably sounded gibberish but hopefully, you kinda understand what I mean
I can also see your point about not wanting anymore friends, although it's a bit elitist to not want anymore female friends, but I guess you've been dealt a fairly good hand.
To put it in perspective, my two flatmates have set up a house party at our place. One of them is in an active relationship and the other is not, but easily could be. Around thirty people are probably going to show up, six of which are couples.
And the other twenty four people?
All men.
Now since I didn't organise this I feel as if I can bitch and moan all I want. After working sixty hours a week and having those delightful two days off during the weekend, I'm not particularly thrilled with being home with more than a fistful of drunk men. I'm most likely going to go to the gym for a while and then come home, down a bottle of valium, and sleep.
I know, a little OT. I'm a bit peeved at the impending übelwurstfest, but I don't see the point in meeting anyone there. Half of them I already know. They're uninteresting and dull. Seeking self gain while being fake and impersonal. Plus, it's all men.
Even if unavailable/"just a friend", a single woman is exponentially better than that.
I think you're wrong that nothing will ever happen with some of the girls. I've been mates with people for years sometimes and then all of a sudden realise I do actually fancy them and then end up together. Guy I'm with at the moment had been friends with for about 10 months, both thought nothing would ever happen and then one drunk house party a month or so ago one thing led to another.
Most of my mates are really really great guys that probably do have all or most of the qualities I look for in a partner, but I do value friendship more than a relationship and in general wouldn't make a move on any of my friends...although alchohol does have a habbit of changing that!
I think part of being a good friend is giving the advice that you say you feel used for giving. If it was a bloke asking for that advice would you feel used? I'd guess not, but why should it be any different? Men and women aren't that different and really the opposite sex shouldn't only be viewed as a sex object like you seem to believe.
You dont HAVE to be friends with people
It is frustrating, but how is it a complete waste of time?
I'm talking about girls who've quite adamantly told me nothing will ever happen now or in future. I always want to know if there's even the remotest possibility of something in the future for closure - either to let it go and move on or still have a lingering hope.
I say I feel 'used' because personally I've never relied much at all on friendship - I don't need people there as a shoulder to cry on or whatever. If I have any issues I'd much rather go somewhere like here and get the opinions of a dozen random people than waste my friends' time (and make them think I'm weird in some cases). Whereas girls I've been friends with in the past 'use' me, wasting my time whining and bitching about how they can't get a guy, or the guy they're with is a prick, and all that usual frustrating jazz.
A bad thing is yes, I do see all women as sexual objects. The first thing I subconsciously think when I see any woman is 'would I' or 'wouldn't I'. I have zero interest in friendship with any woman, just either nothing if they're rough, or pulling / sex if they're alright, or a relationship if I'm really into them.
Just got back from a club. One girl was there who I slept with then the Monday after gave me the "I like you too much to go out with, let's just be close friends" and just wanted platonic friendship after sleeping with me, I've been totally ignoring her phone calls, txts and emails. She was practically in tears screaming at me "Why are you ignoring me? I want to be friends with you. Why won't you be my friend" etc. Ffs :banghead: :banghead:
Okies, that is pretty lame what that girl did.
Sorry, I don't have much advice to give. Just, unfortunately it happens. And yeah it sucks when you like someone, who don't like ya the same way.
Chin up dude. You will find a nice girl.
I think most people can get over having those feelings and enjoy the friendship or at least put them to the back of their minds. I know I have with a couple of the guys that I have fancied out of my mates. They're usually the ones who become my closest mates afterwards and we tend to have a mutual understanding and can be more open about things with each other. But at the end of the day, as long as a guy still acts like a normal mate around me and treats me how he would other friends is it such a bad thing if he fancies me as well?
I don't believe anyone can say for definite nothing will happen. Feelings change over the years and you never know what's around the corner. One of my exes I'd been mates with for 5 years before going out with and had never thought of him in any light but friendship...if he'd asked me out in those frst years I'd have told him nothing would ever happen.
You should really see it as a compliment that people feel they can trust you with problems and want to share things with you. I know it can get tiring constantly giving people advice and sometimes you do have to draw the line, but for them to do it every now and again isn't using you, it's just how friendships work.
I suppose it does depend on the situation I'm in to make friends. In a club or social area like that I probably would eye a bloke up and down and make a snap judgement along the "would I"/"wouldn't I" line and yes I'd probably only make the effort to talk to the ones I would...I've got enough friends that I don't need to add more. But in more formal situations those thoughts don't cross my mind and I'll talk to anyone and have some great friends from that, but the thought of ever taking it further with them repulses me in some ways.
She sounds like a bit of a headcase...better off without women like that in ya life
Kazbo - regarding that its fine if you have a mutual understanding etc.. no. You feel like COMPLETE SHIT if you're friends with someone but want more they don't, and you have to put up with them pulling other people when you go out clubbing together. Feel shit enough them just wanting advice on guys they're seeing/fucking, when I'm thinking "Why can't I be that guy?". Anyhow, not sure how healthy it is to have this non-stop lingering hope of the 5% chance that sometime in the future they fall for you.
See I've never felt that shit about it. Just shrugged it off and moved on without too much of a thought about it. I wouldn't say you leave it as a lingering hope that something will happen, rather is it worthwhile losing the friendship. I suppose it does depend on priorities in life. I love having loads of friends and being surrounded by them and you can never have too many friends in life as far as I'm concerned.
Sent psycho "I want to be best friends with you" girl a pretty rude message yesterday spelling out I have zero interest in friendship, which she's completely ignored txting back wanting to hang out today, tomorrow and on weekdays. Keeps asking what I'm doing so if I try and make it that I'm busy eg at the gym she'll be like "Well you can see me straight after that" :banghead: :banghead:
I'm spoiled by just reading your words. I wish genetics were just as forgiving. Please take things into perspecive.
When you realize that you ain't gonna get your dick wet, you'll appreciate that friendship is always worth more.
I get on with 1 well and i know that we are just friends and that he doesn't want more.
I also have a close friend that is male and gay, and well we get on very well, we work together and talk every day, i know he wouldn't want more but still i don't ever think i want more than friendship with him
There can't be much sincerity to your feelings if you're ready to ditch her and have nothing to do with her if she won't hook up with you.
It sucks balls to get spurned, and it hurts to be around them while those feelings settle, but avoiding female friendships where you can't take it further just goes to show your own mindlessness towards friendship. It's not something that's gender specific.
Yet you complain when your "aquaintences" get in touch with you on facebook to see if you fancy getting up to something.
Basically everyone you know is only good if they have something you want/need and can get, or they are of use to you?
However I am close friends with one girl. But I am just friends with her mainly because my attaction to her is extremely minimal and I am not attracted to her physically or personality-wise and to be fair she makes the effort to contact me and although we don't have much in common, there's only so many excuses I use before we end up meeting up.
I think if one person likes the other as more than friends it's best to be honest and try to nip it in the bud. When me and S started to hang out increasingly frequently and people started confusing us for being a couple: "so how long have you been going out together?", alarm bells started ringing and I told her that we'd only ever be friends and I made sure that my mates knew it too!
I usually think it's best to be direct with girls and tell them you want them right from the start to prevent any confusion and wasted time and "Let's not ruin our friendship".
However on one occasion I asked a girl out and she said "I don't really know you" and "we're not really friends" so for her friendship was a pre-requisite for going out.
As usual it depends on the people and their characteristics as to whether they can be friends or not.
A general rule of thumb: the more unattractive/ unavailable the girl (ie bf) , the more a guy can be friends with her.
Your reasons for not wanting to be around her are built on insecurity and not being able to accept her choices. Not everybody lets that stumbling block get in the way of a good friendship.
Yes, it hurts. But if you treat every girl as a trophy rather than as a person, why would they want to be with you in the first place?
Things are different and to each their own. But for me, I'm close friends with a girl that I've always liked a lot. Although we both know getting together would be massively complicated, those feelings don't affect the friendship. She has a boyfriend and I (before yesterday) had a girlfriend. We still get on perfectly well as friends though and that's something that I value a whole lot more than a doomed one night stand.
The nightmare I've had twice recently is when I wasn't even friends with the girl beforehand, and they're like "you're such an amazing guy, I need you to be my best friend, dating would ruin the connection we have" :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: The "treat them mean to keep them keen" strategy worked well though, the one I completely ignored and said I want more than friends or nothing at all succumbed last night so I ended up back at hers.. just came into work in last night's clothes, walk of shame
That reminds me of an aunt of mine, not to the same extent, but when its someone "outside" of the family or close friends she pulls out ALL the stops, tries to impress etc to the expense of closer family. I always thought it was a bit weird and a bit of a personality defect. Actually come to think of it my ex was a lot like that. If he barely knew someone he'd do them any favour - wanted to be seen as mr Fantastic, but once hed "got you" he wasnt bothered anymore or even to the extent of treating them badly.
Its only the excitement of impressing people, yet theres no staying power or loyalty there.
If you dont see it as a problem then it isnt...........yet.
You WILL find that people will see through it all eventually, and by then it might be a bit late, but I know you wont actually believe this till it happens.