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Commons launches ANOTHER bid to hide expenses claims

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    It's always been like that and always will be. .

    But is it all about getting to the top? I want to do well for myself but I can think of nothing worse than being an MP.
    I'd much rather spend my time helping other people,.
    I know it's always been like this but ...but not on suc=h a scale ...such a human scale.
    The same small handfull of people ...to deal with billions. When i was a kid ...which isn't in real terms that long ago ...there ws no such thing ...no such concept ...as a billionaire. All the numbers have changed ...except theirs.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    *yawn*

    Get a grip man. FYI an empty and unfurnished house is not liable for council tax.

    sorry IT IS the fact that my council have 2'400 £ of my money is proof enough of that you evidently didn't read my posts ? I had a house not fit to be inhabited but was charged council tax on it, the local mp when presented with the problem practically said fuck off.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »

    But is it all about getting to the top? I want to do well for myself but I can think of nothing worse than being an MP. The ridiculous hours, the (comparatively) modest pay packet, the pressure and the fact that every time you look at the internet there is someone somewhere calling you a cunt. I'd hate that. It takes a certain type of person to want that life.

    well they certainly don't seem to mind, and as they want that kind of life they must be "that certain kind of people"
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know it's always been like this but ...but not on suc=h a scale ...such a human scale.

    In real terms we're the freest we've ever been. We're not locked up in ships and moved across the world as slaves, we don't have to give our last bit of food to a Feudal master to sell whilst our children starve, we're largely free to do what we want.

    The rich are getting richer but in real terms they're dragging most of us along too. If I was born 50 years ago I wouldn't have gone to university, I wouldn't have a law degree, I wouldn't be free to have foreign holidays and a nice house. I'd have gone to the factory, just like my dad did, just like his dad did, and I'd have had a little small life with a little small wife in a little small house.

    I live ten miles from Jarrow. I'm a damn sight freer than the people who were marching from there in the 1930s.

    But then they always say the best slaves are happy slaves who don't see the fences that hem them in. I could never rule the world but I can get closer than my parents could.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually, I was slightly wrong about council tax. It can be exempted for up to 12 months if it is unoccupied, unfurnished and in a poor state of repair. After that the discount can be up to 50%.

    Source

    Though I don't see why you shouldn't pay council tax if you've got a house in the area. Sell it if you don't want to pay tax on it and you have no money ffs.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    It's a completely legitimate way to present the story. Why should MPs be alllowed to spend our money as they please without having to account for it? On the spurious grounds of "security" too, under the laughable impression that MPs are going to get stalked or subjected to terrorist attacks if their claims are made public. The only ones who'll be doing the "stalking" will be political journalists - and that's only if the MPs in question are revealed to be on the fiddle

    Well I think if you split that down then it comes down to:
    a) should they be allowed to spend tax money on themselves
    b) should they be able to hide the spending on security grounds
    c) are the security concerns fair

    A - well, technically we hire them to run the country. I think they do take advantage from what I've read in the press - but then again that's probably part of the job. Consider that most come from very wealthy backgrounds anyway we can't expect them (unfortunately) to take a pledge of poverty. Now that would be something. A political party that said they would not cheat for personal gain, and to prove their commitment, would resign their personal belongings to the needy and wear simple garments, get the bus / taxi to work, etc. But that's more of a dream I think.

    B - I think this is fair. The security services do it all the time. We have to bear in mind as much as we want world peace, there are people out there who want to damage the UK and so full disclosure of every public expense is actually not in the public interest because then china will get in a huff we just spend £3bn setting up a ring of spy satellites watching all their nuclear silos... the world is still a cloak and dagger place

    C - I think the security concerns in this case aren't valid. Their only security concerns should be of a rampaging mob of angry proletariat because they've paid for a subterrannean 'country club members only' olympic sized swimming pool under number 10 while we're fed the same drivel about 'can't increase spending... salaries cant go up... sorry chaps - its the economy'.

    To be honest though, there is a lot of spin on the whole thing. But did anyone really expect an honest politician? There are two types of people who want to become politicians. Those who want to make a difference for others, and those who want to make a difference for themselves (bigging themselves up in the world). Those who are willing to sacrifice their own things unfortunately, find themselves without a hot air balloon flying over london vs. the members of the oxbridge elites incorporated who got their accumulated wealth together to put their mate in to increase their accumulated wealth.

    The illusion of a fair and just democracy seems to me these days as just that - an illusion. The choice is puppet A or puppet B.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    In real terms we're the freest we've ever been. We're not locked up in ships and moved across the world as slaves, we don't have to give our last bit of food to a Feudal master to sell whilst our children starve, we're largely free to do what we want.

    The rich are getting richer but in real terms they're dragging most of us along too. If I was born 50 years ago I wouldn't have gone to university, I wouldn't have a law degree, I wouldn't be free to have foreign holidays and a nice house. I'd have gone to the factory, just like my dad did, just like his dad did, and I'd have had a little small life with a little small wife in a little small house.

    I live ten miles from Jarrow. I'm a damn sight freer than the people who were marching from there in the 1930s.

    But then they always say the best slaves are happy slaves who don't see the fences that hem them in. I could never rule the world but I can get closer than my parents could.

    I'd bet near where your living there are a number of old forgotten grave yards ...forgotten being the criteria.
    For a sunny SUbnday morning picnic go to one. Read the stones ...most people wern;'t carted off as slaves and most people wern't starving. The average age over the last 500 yrs has been 75 ...except in heavy industrialised capitalist production profit driven areas.
    Seriously ...find some old graveyards as a source of your history ...you'll be surprised. There were of course in history certain eras of not getting beyond forty but ...they are actualy quite rare.
    When we talk of times past ...we use the only reference point we have which is today ...which distorts our view of the past.
    The battle of hastings ...people north of birmingham were probably ignorant of the fact that the country had been conquered ...for weeks ...then for months it was a rumour that might be proving true ...get to manchester ...they wern't interested for years.
    Being freer than ever is in my mind ...a very hard thing to determine.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Of course, but those who could afford the gravestones were the ones who could afford to have a half decent life. At the end of my street there used to be pauper's grave, a Quaker yard, and the average age in there was probably about 47. History only records those who were important enough to be recorded.

    I don't think you can ever define how free someone is, not from so long ago, but its certainly better than the days of the feudal master and the tithe. It's better than the days of the clearances in most of Sutherland and the far Highlands of Scotland.

    I don't think we're free at all- more surveillance, more stealth tax, more control over where we can work and what we can do there. But freedom is subjective. At least we (nominally) get to choose our jailer or move to another prison if we don't like this one.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So whether we choose to view the glass as half full, or half empty, or double the size it needs to be - doesnt change the fact that we're still stuck with a glass thats filled up half way. Guess it's all about perspective.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'd bet near where your living there are a number of old forgotten grave yards ...forgotten being the criteria.
    For a sunny SUbnday morning picnic go to one. Read the stones ...most people wern;'t carted off as slaves and most people wern't starving. The average age over the last 500 yrs has been 75 ...except in heavy industrialised capitalist production profit driven areas.
    Seriously ...find some old graveyards as a source of your history ...you'll be surprised. There were of course in history certain eras of not getting beyond forty but ...they are actualy quite rare.
    When we talk of times past ...we use the only reference point we have which is today ...which distorts our view of the past.
    The battle of hastings ...people north of birmingham were probably ignorant of the fact that the country had been conquered ...for weeks ...then for months it was a rumour that might be proving true ...get to manchester ...they wern't interested for years.
    Being freer than ever is in my mind ...a very hard thing to determine.


    I quite agree.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sorry IT IS the fact that my council have 2'400 £ of my money is proof enough of that you evidently didn't read my posts ? I had a house not fit to be inhabited but was charged council tax on it, the local mp when presented with the problem practically said fuck off.

    :confused:

    So council tax is £5k for your banding then
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :confused:

    So council tax is £5k for your banding then

    no its 1000 £ a year

    now that I live in it I get a 25 % discount versus when it was empty......
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with Kermit, it's a shit life but it's better than previous generations. Saying that, I don't like the road we're going down these days...a step backwards if you ask me.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Some things are better, some worse.

    There's never been a golden age and but there's no new Jersusalem around the corner either.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    I agree with Kermit, it's a shit life but it's better than previous generations. Saying that, I don't like the road we're going down these days...a step backwards if you ask me.
    Why is it a shit life? Trying to compare YOUR life today with that of millions of individuals past is impossible in the happiness stakes.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why is it a shit life? Trying to compare YOUR life today with that of millions of individuals past is impossible in the happiness stakes.

    I'm quite happy with my own personal life, I was talking generally. There's still loads of suffering going on.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    I'm quite happy with my own personal life, I was talking generally. There's still loads of suffering going on.
    I think there is more suffering going on than ever before.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think there is more suffering going on than ever before.

    How many people die of TB in this country? How many of malnutrition? How many are arrested for being homosexual? How many families lack indoor plumbing? How many people own a car?

    And this can be replicated across much of the world - there are many more democracies than before, less wars (and those less deadly), less famine, better technology etc,etc
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And this can be replicated across much of the world - there are many more democracies than before, less wars (and those less deadly), less famine, better technology etc,etc

    Less famine! Less wars! Less deadly wars! ...Not sure we're on the same planet.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    life for the third world is bad if not worse than before and a good deal of it is our fault for using them. life here is perhaps too easy people have nothing to do so go oiut and murder for the fun of it. we have got to the point that things are so easy that we don't know what to do with ourselves. live is so easy we don't have to know much to get on but we are fed up just the same
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    life for the third world is bad if not worse than before and a good deal of it is our fault for using them. life here is perhaps too easy people have nothing to do so go oiut and murder for the fun of it. we have got to the point that things are so easy that we don't know what to do with ourselves. live is so easy we don't have to know much to get on but we are fed up just the same
    Theres a lot of depressing truth in that.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    erm BBC4 has just anounced that the govner of the collapsed northern rock is getting a 700'000 £ pay off, what the fuck is going on ? you cock your job up and get settled for life ? if I was parliment I would be doing some shouting but as its goverment run now (yes 2000 pounds of everybodys tax money is in the bank) they must have allowed it and people on here wonder why I'm bitter about the goverment jesus (and I'm not at all religeous) swearing ain't enough to express my anger at the crap that goes on.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    erm BBC4 has just anounced that the govner of the collapsed northern rock is getting a 700'000 £ pay off, what the fuck is going on ? you cock your job up and get settled for life ? if I was parliment I would be doing some shouting but as its goverment run now (yes 2000 pounds of everybodys tax money is in the bank) they must have allowed it and people on here wonder why I'm bitter about the goverment jesus (and I'm not at all religeous) swearing ain't enough to express my anger at the crap that goes on.
    And the people at the bottom get threatened with loosing their homes cos they're unemployed ...get accused offiddling benefits ...benefit cheats equal a billion quid ...tax cheats equal fifty billion quid ...lets chase the ones at the bottom of the pile ...it's always the poor wots to blame.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What's your point? If it weren't for the fact that northern rock got bailed out by the government you wouldn't care how much the governer got paid off, or how much he earnt while he worked.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote: »
    What's your point? If it weren't for the fact that northern rock got bailed out by the government you wouldn't care how much the governer got paid off, or how much he earnt while he worked.

    ok I will spell it out for YOU

    he was incapable of doing his job ie: crashed the bank ? but HE is getting 700'000 £ does that make sense ? cmon think for two minutes damn it

    if i messed my job up I would get the sack and thats that no get set up for life
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And the people at the bottom get threatened with loosing their homes cos they're unemployed ...get accused offiddling benefits ...benefit cheats equal a billion quid ...tax cheats equal fifty billion quid ...lets chase the ones at the bottom of the pile ...it's always the poor wots to blame.

    quite
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    erm BBC4 has just anounced that the govner of the collapsed northern rock is getting a 700'000 £ pay off, what the fuck is going on ? you cock your job up and get settled for life ? if I was parliment I would be doing some shouting but as its goverment run now (yes 2000 pounds of everybodys tax money is in the bank) they must have allowed it and people on here wonder why I'm bitter about the goverment jesus (and I'm not at all religeous) swearing ain't enough to express my anger at the crap that goes on.

    Just mentioned on the telly that the rock lost one hundred and sixty seven million quid last year ...thats a lot of dosh to loose in twelve months!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yep its called greed you lend to someone you know can'y pay back but hope will so your business gets bigger and thats your result, I will never ever use a bank they are totaly unfair to their customers and care only for profit, building society's give a much better deal
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    tbh as long as I can buy nice food then I'm happy.

    But just travelling to spain for a week I've noticed many foodstuffs here are actually 3x - 4x more expensive. Bread is about half the price there, meat is more expensive but I could get by on the abundance of cheese and veg! Especially when it's ridiculously cheap, equivilent of 40 / 50p for fresh in season strawberries.

    That's just my experience though. It is all about perspective as Kermit has pointed out - it's better now than it has been - but on the flipside I think the price of food has gone up over the last 12 months quite a bit and just from going on holiday it seems those on the continent are still enjoying low prices. So if the cost of production hasn't significantly increased, why has the cost we pay increased so much... bigger supermarket overheads? Local shops seems to charge top dollar too, £3 for a sandwich, £1-£1.50 for some bread.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ok I will spell it out for YOU

    he was incapable of doing his job ie: crashed the bank ? but HE is getting 700'000 £ does that make sense ? cmon think for two minutes damn it

    if i messed my job up I would get the sack and thats that no get set up for life
    Like I said you wouldn't care if it weren't a bank that was bailed out by the government.
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