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Well you could say that about any type of thing we do to change our appearance. Clothing, hair, pubic hair, makeup etc etc.
I could go round dressed like stig of the dump if I like, and profess that if people don't like the way I look they're not worth knowing.
Was that sarcasm? haha
The girls who say that sound a bit hypocritical [not that I've seen anyone doing so] because they're annoyed at guys who expect them to shave [and I wouldn't say all guys necessarily do, I wouldn't know] yet they're insinuating that girls who don't smell and are unhygenic.
Hypocritical much
I don't care to be honest X] I shave because I want to because it what I like the look of. I don't feel icky if I don't and not unhygenic, I just like to look shaven. And if some girls don't - good on em!
looking like stig of the dump and a woman not shaving her armpits isnt the same thign at all, but i guess youre right. If someone felt best when dressed as a caveman and someone else refused to see past that, then thats their lookout.
I find it astounding how het up people get about it tbh. I cant imagine anyone gettng all upset about how socially unnaceptable it is to have a moustache for instance and how we shouldnt break societal norms because we need to be as attractive to as many people as possible.
Its just ridiculous. Why would anyone give a fuck whether a woman has armpit hair or smooth armpits - especially if theyre not even that womans sexual partner. crazy
Yeah, I'm a bit
Exactly, it's no big deal really
Did anyone see Shazia Mirza's experiment on BBC3 a few years ago? Could definitely be done better in my opinion.
I was using an extreme to highlight a point. You seem very focused on pubic hair but that just one of the things woman and men do to modify their appearance to fit in or apear more attractive.
Of course, but then if we suggested looking like a caveman wouldn't be the best way to go about getting a partner because a lot of poeple wouldn't find it attractive would we be wrong. I don't think so.
We'll to be fair, we asked what our opinions were. Some people suggested that a lot of people both men and women don't find under arm hair on women attractive. Then people got a little defensive because it suggested that people who are turned off by underarm hair on women were twats and somehow lacked intelligence.
Just because I prefer women to keep themselves shaved and trimmed doesn't make me shallow or be able to look beyond appearance which is what I thinks being suggested. Being attracted to different appearance attributes is a very natural thing for all of us. Some care and worry about their appearance and others apearances more than others, but that doesn't make them wrong
I think you'll find there's a large proportion of young women who find a lot of facial hair a turn off. I have no problem with that, so I shave.
We were asked our opinions and we gave them.
There a lot of poeple that will make the judgement that if you have under arm hair you are unhygenic and lazy. That's not right, judgements by appearance rarely are, but that's how it is.
Do what you like, but don't get upset when some poeple say (after you've asked for their opinion) that they don't find it attractive.
Of course you can. On the other hand you can shy away somebody who hasn't given this topic as much thought and is insecure about what to do and what others will think, but would later turn out to be the real keeper who doesn't give a shit about your bodyhair.
There is some Buddhistical symbol that looks very much like the Swastika. Still I wouldn't wear it on a t-shirt, even if I was a hardcore buddhism believer. do you know what kind of point I am making? It's just a front, that people cannot identify a 100%. I let labels and stereotypes work against myself!
Maybe I am just a sheep who rows itself inbetween the others, because I adapt myself, but I know not to make it harder for myself as it already is and I know Namaste has problems with finding the right person for her (out of other threads).
This sentence leads me to believe you're missing the point of the OP and the replies thereafter. Noone ITT particularly cares if Namaste shaves her pits or not, but she did ask our opinion on women who don't so we gave them. Although we're not her or their sexual partner, the point myself and a few others are trying to get across is that you're limiting yourself in future sexual partners by doing so. Yes yes, people are too shallow and they should take the time to get to know what's underneath. Unfortunately real life isn't the movie Shrek, and alot of otherwise nice, caring, deep, loving people don't get to know people who are unpleasant to the eye. If I refused to do the male equivalent of shaving my armpit or leg hair, and go around with a fuzzy, unkempt, two foot long beard and frizzy curly hair down to my arse I certainly won't blame any woman that didn't want to get to know me.
I don't how many times I can reword the same point before everyone gets it. Let me break it down for you one last time, and if you don't get it please don't waste my time by reasking.
Men and women have different social standards imposed upon them. Whether that is right or fair is irrelevant. Women are "supposed" to shave their leg hair and armpit hair, and men are "supposed" to keep their facial and head hair under control. Whether this is right or fair is irrelevant. If men or women break from this standard, the opposite sex (or the same sex, if they swing that way) at large are going to find them less attractive, severely cutting their chance of getting a future partner. Again, whether this is right or fair is irrelevant.
Tell me, would you bother getting to know any of these guys with the intention of making one of them your sexual partner?
I was trying to think of a way of saying this without sounding mean, which is why I was veering the discussion towards what prospective partners etc would think.
I am, I'm pretty sure it's you who's not getting my point. Even although you're insinuating in a roundabout way that I decided that women not shaving gives the connotation that they are lazy or unhygienic, I didn't; I said that's the social standard. I haven't done indepth studies as to why, so I cannot give you a full answer despite giving at least slight insight with the American West reason.
Although I don't know why you chose an issue with the lazy part; we've already established through admittance from both sexes that laziness is a determining factor for not shaving.
EDIT: This may offend some, but I can't it slide. I hope I'm not the only one who's picked up on the irony of the women ITT condemning the men for brining the lazy/unhygienic societal stereotype to their attention, when they themselves seem to be acting out one of the stereotypes alot of sexist jokes are based on. You know, the one that states when a women asks if she looks fat in her outfit, you lie your ass off and don't truthfully answer the question she asked.
Just a thought.
It just takes too much time for something that needs to be constantly maintained.
I regret starting shaving my legs at about 12 years old. I was silly and there was no need to.
Nobody here has said that.
It was only suggested that some people will think that, whether it be true or not.
Really... Did you make a survey?
Really? A lot of the lesbians I know don't care. But the gay scene is pretty bitchy. At the same time, very diverse.
We'll see.
It will be interesting to find out, no? Though I do suspect you're exaggerating in a lot of what you say, I'll report back. For the record, being in drag hasn't stopped people talking to me.
Yeah but to be fair, judging from your myspace picture (from what I can see, not being your myspace friend) you don't look "different" to me. You just look like loads of teenagers do within subcultures. There are quite a few people who dress similar to that in my area, though maybe your city is different.
For women going out being dressed 'normal' it takes many of them a lot more time than it takes me, who dresses (I guess) "alternative", but that is down to makeup and stuff.
The thing is, who would really want to know somebody so sad that they would be too horrified to talk to somebody with armpit hair? In fact, who goes around staring at people's armpits anyway?
I knew someone would think I'm exaggerating with the thousands thing. Think about all the people you've met in your life. The only way you wouldn't have met thousands is if you either live in a small town you don't venture out of, or you live in a city and don't venture out of your house much. Or, you go out occasionally but go to the same places. If you do different activities, go to different clubs and bars, and generally socialise with people in places where people are "supposed" to socialise, my bet is on you having met thousands of people in your life too.
But yeah, I guess it's a scene thing given that I know and actively talk to people in all scenes and all age groups up to about 40.
Yes because the only way to find out such information is to make surveys. It's not possible to oh I don't know, pick up on basic sociological patterns by you know, observing them in daily life. How often do you see neds go for goths? How many punks for wiggers?
And God forbid using memory to do crazy things like memorise attitudes that differ from the norm. I don't know anyone that likes scat fetish either, and that's something else that kind of sticks out. But clearly the only way I would know for sure is to re-find out the opinions of everyone I know and jot them down in handy survey form.
If you understood the meaning of the word 'specious' you wouldn't have just said "We'll see".
Given that it's a specious argument, you can't know being in drag hasn't stopped people from talking to you. I'm not saying that it would, but the only way you'd know for sure is if people actively came up to and said "Well, I would have talked to you, but you're wearing drag". Since people don't do that, you have no way of knowing. A petty point in its simplest form perhaps, but hopefully you'll be able to understand the point.
Maybe not different if the year was 1981 and I lived on the Sunset Strip, but certainly different in Glasgow given that I hardly know anyone who likes glam/sleaze let alone dresses like it. Regardless, it's irrelevant to the point. If a guy wore a kilt in China, he'd still be different. It may not be original, and his motivation may not be him trying to be different, but the fact remains he is. Dressing anything other than indie, emo, trendy or ned in Glasgow is different, regardless of originality.
You having having armpit hair is more likely to put men off than turn men on and it'll probably be the same for women - I think it'll will negatively impact your chances of finding a partner.
I don't think you can argue with that point really.
Those that are put off or don't fin it attractive are not shallow, twats, deviod of intelligence or anything else that's been suggested. They simply have a preference, no different than some prefering men clean shaven or with tidy facial hair to a full on bushy beard.
I think the best reason not to shave is that you can't be bothered. Fair fucking reason in my eyes.
If it's because your making some sort of protest well good on you for doing somehting about your beliefs, but you will probably be the one that suffers.
Ok...
A, I am not looking for a boyfriend and doubt I can't see that changing. It is also quite insulting that people assume I will be unable to get a partner due to my personality, or looks alone. Not shaving your armpits for a while does not mean you are walking around showing them off on purpose.
B, It's not a protest, I just want to see what it's like.
C, I don't have an issue with people not being turned on by body hair, nobody here has. There's a difference between throwing your toys outof the pram because a woman does not confirm to your standards of beauty for her and thinking "hey, you know what? I'm not in to your look but I'm sure somebody is".
Why does everything have to be about getting a partner all of a sudden?
however, I dont give a monkeys what others decide to do with their hair, nor would it alone stop me being attracted to someone.
There certainly is. Tell me then, why did you have issue when I used the word 'met' and replied with something that would only have made sense if I said I knew them on a personal level?
Even so, jobs such as that don't really count. The people who work alongside you do, but the students etc are only talking to you because they have to (and you them). Not meaning it in a bad way, but you wouldn't otherwise be interacting... the same as a shop assistant wouldn't otherwise by interacting with the customers. I was meaning more things where you interact with people through choice, not a job requirement. For instance, you said you go to raves. Most weekends that I go to a club or a rave I meet about 5 - 10 new people who I then gradually get to know better over the next few times I meet them. Usually one or two people initially, then they introduce you to the people they're here with. You don't exchange numbers and arrange to go out again, you just happen to bump into them again and again if you go to clubs on the same kind of circuit.
I'm actually not trying to be condescending here, but maybe that's different from you in which case you wouldn't have met that many people over the years. Glasgow only has two or three gay clubs, so I imagine the crowd would be limited to the same faces.
All of a sudden? You asked our opinions, we gave them. Getting a partner tends to be something the majority of people ITT think not shaving will hinder. Some are also coupling this with the threads they've seen posted by you in the relationships forum (myself included... I venture in there occasionally even though I don't post :razz: ). You seem to have make your decision before posting this thread so I'm not entirely sure what you were hoping to gain by it, but never the less I'm yet to here any reasons in favour except "Just because... why should I have to?". The cons as we can see them outweigh the pro's, with the only logical pro being a time issue.
Anyway, the bit you quoted there was in reply to another reply of a section you quoted from me (
(Are you just fucking with me now?)
Like I say, I work in busy jobs and don't claim to have met thousands of people on top of my social life. It's not like I don't go out too.
I'm at raves all the time, clubs, bars, societies... Of course I 'meet' new people, but I would put it in the hundreds, not the thousands.
I think that claiming to have met 'thousands' of people is a bit excessive. No? I know DJs who do not even claim that.
I've never posted anything to do with wanting a partner (and if people were, they'd not be making references about what men will think of me :rolleyes:... Unless you mean the thread about me being fed up with gay women, meh... everyone has bad days). Yeah, I'd like to meet more gay women but cannot be arsed with dating them.
No, actually I'm not.
Like I said, I knew someone would pick issue with the thousands thing, so I thought about it before posting it as people have a habit of picking up on things like exaggerations instead of concentrating on the point being made. But no, I don't think it's a bit excessive. Say I take the lowest number I gave and we assume I meet 5 new people every weekend. 52 weeks a year, so that's 260 people a year. In about 4 years, you'll have met your 1000. Hell, I was at a gig last Friday and met around 10 - 15 new people I intend talking to again, most of which have added me on MySpace since. I've met around 60 - 70 of my girlfriends' friends since going out with her (again, not an exaggeration. They don't all hang around with each other and have their own wee 'cliques', but that's irrelevant). Then I've met her sisters friends who sometimes come on nights out with us, as well as her wee sisters boyfriend and his friends. Then there's everyone my friends or people I know have dated, and their friends, and my wee sisters friends.
Really, if you haven't met 1000+ you're doin it rong. Nothing here that I need to "get over", but since you're picking fault with the stupidest things and expecting answers to these irrelevant tangents. If you think the answer is a fault that I need to get over, too bad.
Time to get over yourself, I think. You asked our opinions on women who didn't shave; we gave them. Believe it or not, there are women other than you, and some of them are even straight. Given that some of these women are straight, me and a few others chose let you know what men will think given that that was the question in the OP.
The point of the word 'specious' is that you can't see. It's stuff that can't be proven by conventional means. To cite an example from The Simpsons; There's a rock on the ground. There are also no lions in the area, which means the rock is keeping away the lions. If someone makes assumptions based on your armpit hair or doesn't talk to you because of it, you aren't going to know. There is no "We'll see".
EDIT:
I did say that a few posts back seeing as the thread has filled its purpose, but noone seemed to pay attention :razz:
No, you didn't take your own advice did you? :no:
But seriously, get a room guys *yawn*.
Well she seemed to want to continue the discussion after it being pointed out and I'm sad enough that I don't have anything more worthwhile to be doing :razz:
That's not what anbody has said. Shaven or well trimmed pubic hair is often seen as attractive, not shaving them rarely is, i.e not shaving will negatively impact your attractiveness if you like. It's quite logical really.
Nobody has once implied that you won't be able to get a partner or that nobody will be attracted to you because your going to choose not to shave though. Some people really don't care.
It has been suggested in this thread though that the people who DO care, aren't worth knowing. Which i find rather ridiculous.
Is this a womens issue? I don't think so.
People of both sexes conform to what other percieve as attractive. It's quite natural really. No toys have been thrown we've simply been honest, nobody's said it's digusting or anything. If anybody's got worked up about it's those that seem to dislike the fact that some prefer their partners hair tidy.
Yep. Getting into debates about attractiveness is annoying, because people always play the "Oh it should be my personality that counts!" card. This isn't a movie. As important as personality is, people like to date people they find attractive. Although they would be shallow and superficial if the person they were dating only had looks, there's nothing to say people can't have both. I mean, why go for someone with a good personality that you don't find aesthetically appealing when you can go for someone who you find attractive and who has a good personality?
How many people do you honestly think would stay with their partner if their partner completely let themselves go? No, I'm not saying not shaving is letting yourself go, I'm using it to illustrate the point people do care about looks no matter how good a person they are - the only difference is how they prioritise looks compared to other qualities.
@ Namaste: Noone's saying people won't find this attractive, we're saying LESS people will. I don't think you can honestly disagree with this point.
Some people are... But meh, whatever man. Horses for courses.
Peace.