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An Inconvenient Truth

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    I could bet my life on it right now this moment that none of my mates back home even know who Al Gore is nevermind what he stands for. The whole green issue and doing something for the environment is still a Middle Class preserve imo.

    Tbh though, the fact that the film was shown in British cinemas says something about how it has attracted attention and that people watched it. if there was no interest, then it wouldn't have been profitable to show it.

    I disagree about the green issue being 'middle class', that sounds like a cop out to me... Unless you mean teh language for it?

    Yeah... Like when I've been to People & Planet meetings in central London, it tends to be the most (stereotypically) middle class universities who are most active. I guess that goes with a lot of branches of activism, it's the people who have the best access to resources who tend to get involved.

    I think though, that shunning environmentalism for being 'middle class' is missing the point entirely, when you look at how it'll be the world's most poor and vulnerable people who will be suffering. Granted, middle class people are doing most of the damage.

    The way it's communicated though... As I've already said is very classist and ethnocentric, at least that is what I believe from being exposed to it first hand (maybe I'm missing out on the working class side?).

    There are, however people who are working with ethnic groups, many of who are from more deprived areas.

    How do you think it could be made less 'middle class'?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    Tbh though, the fact that the film was shown in British cinemas says something about how it has attracted attention and that people watched it. if there was no interest, then it wouldn't have been profitable to show it.

    I think the fact that he was an Ex Vice-President and Presidential multi-millionaire runner has more to do with the fact the film was shown than general interest from the public.
    Namaste wrote: »
    How do you think it could be made less 'middle class'?

    Grass roots community activism is the best way forward, it seems to me that these groups are just individuals who share the same causes and meet up in their wee groups to discuss this. Change comes from within the community.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    Grass roots community activism is the best way forward, it seems to me that these groups are just individuals who share the same causes and meet up in their wee groups to discuss this. Change comes from within the community.
    Oh right... Well there is that going on already, it's just not as high profile.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    Oh right... Well there is that going on already, it's just not as high profile.

    Of course but it's not connected, there is no networking going on.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    Of course but it's not connected, there is no networking going on.
    *nods*

    I agree.

    There are several 'classless' groups (in many forms, from freegan to the types of people who chalk on pavements, run centres to raise awareness or who lobby governments), but grassroots groups about there, but the networks are different, especially as many of these groups are so radical.

    They are still part of the green movement though, some of them will be involved with say... CCC.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not sure is linked to class as much as is to political leanings. Much of the Right have become flat-earthers when it comes to climate change. Not all, but a majority. That includes people from working, middle and upper classes.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tbh though, it's probably the middle class who's behaviour needs changing the most. Working class people will always be the ones most likely to buy the lightbulbs that save them the most money, and keep a close eye on how often the central heating is on, and get public transport. There are a few things like recycling, which can be improved, but generally, they're okay. Middle class people, on the other hand, are the ones in the position to choose a fancy new hybrid car, get solar panels on their house, and all the rest of it. And they're the ones most likely to drive their single child to school in a 20mpg car that takes up half the road. If you can convince middle class people to do these things, then in 10 years time, the second hand car market will be full of economical cars, and the housing market will be full of energy efficiant, properly insulated houses.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you can convince middle class people to do these things, then in 10 years time, the second hand car market will be full of economical cars, and the housing market will be full of energy efficiant, properly insulated houses.
    Not going to happen, unfortunately. The media is run by the middle-classes themselves, partly because the newspapers pay their journalists and contributors extremely well. For example, the Daily Mail, which is bought largely by the middle-classes (or the ABC1 group as they're known in the media, for some reason) isn't going to risk upsetting its core readers by telling them "your lifestyle is appalling, you need to change it". The only thing they'll change as a result, is their newspaper. The media won't bite the hand that feeds it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    I'm not sure is linked to class as much as is to political leanings. Much of the Right have become flat-earthers when it comes to climate change. Not all, but a majority. That includes people from working, middle and upper classes.
    Yeah... My experience of the green movement has been like this.

    Tbh, I think more 'right wing' people, especially who are adament supporters of capitalism are possibly scared of losing a deal of what they've got materially? Also, there's the fact that I guess if you're a right wing business man, you might not want to spend time in a group you feel might be full of 'hippies'?

    Or maybe caring for the planet comes hand in hand with caring for people and being more compassionate about our impact on our fellow (wo)man?

    I mean from a global perspective, not family.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Not going to happen, unfortunately. The media is run by the middle-classes themselves, partly because the newspapers pay their journalists and contributors extremely well. For example, the Daily Mail, which is bought largely by the middle-classes (or the ABC1 group as they're known in the media, for some reason) isn't going to risk upsetting its core readers by telling them "your lifestyle is appalling, you need to change it". The only thing they'll change as a result, is their newspaper. The media won't bite the hand that feeds it.
    Tbh, unless I'm mistaken, the Daily Mail has had a couple of articles on climate change?

    The Sun has.

    Not that I'd touch either...

    However, both the Guardian and the Indy are read by middle class people and have loads on it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Mail can't seem to decide which way to turn on the climate change issue. One day, you'll see them printing articles saying "oh, the world's going to end unless we do something about this", the next, it's "climate change doesn't really exist, it's just something that was invented by Lefties". The Sun's readership is much wider, but as I don't read that, I don't know what their regular line is.

    What I'm saying is, the newspapers are unlikely to slag off their own readers. People are not likely to buy something that says their lifestyle is wrong and evil. It would be like a black man going to the BNP's party conference, or a Jewish reporter asking questions to Ken Livingstone. Oh, hang on a second...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Not going to happen, unfortunately. The media is run by the middle-classes themselves, partly because the newspapers pay their journalists and contributors extremely well. For example, the Daily Mail, which is bought largely by the middle-classes (or the ABC1 group as they're known in the media, for some reason) isn't going to risk upsetting its core readers by telling them "your lifestyle is appalling, you need to change it". The only thing they'll change as a result, is their newspaper. The media won't bite the hand that feeds it.

    I think the bigger risk for a newspaper like The Mail is the risk of upsetting their real audience: the advertisers. Putting an article about climate change next to a full page advert for BMW's latest 4x4 isn't going to do them any favours. That's why you need to change middle class consumer demand so that something like The Mail can be profitable by having adverts for economical cars. I don't expect the Daily Mail to be a leader in this, that would involve having some principles beyond your next paycheck, but they certainly won't want to turn their noses up at all of that lovely new middle class advertising revinue from the likes of Sainsbury's or Waitrose.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the bigger risk for a newspaper like The Mail is the risk of upsetting their real audience: the advertisers. Putting an article about climate change next to a full page advert for BMW's latest 4x4 isn't going to do them any favours. That's why you need to change middle class consumer demand so that something like The Mail can be profitable by having adverts for economical cars. I don't expect the Daily Mail to be a leader in this, that would involve having some principles beyond your next paycheck, but they certainly won't want to turn their noses up at all of that lovely new middle class advertising revinue from the likes of Sainsbury's or Waitrose.

    To be honest, I think that consuming less is better than eco-chic type stuff.

    Plus, I think that political activism, if anything is the only way we can really get a whiff of a chance for lowering our emissions on a bigger scale.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    To be honest, I think that consuming less is better than eco-chic type stuff.

    Ah well fuck that idea then. Not a chance that any newspaper, even the most eco-friendly ones, will go too heavily on the whole idea of cutting down consumption. That's their livelihood.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah well fuck that idea then. Not a chance that any newspaper, even the most eco-friendly ones, will go too heavily on the whole idea of cutting down consumption. That's their livelihood.
    It depends on what you call consumption... I've seen articles in newspapers about living green which don't involve hybrid cars, biofuels, solar powered garden lights ect ect

    It's adverts for green holidays... Fly to Ecuador to plant trees... wtf?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    It depends on what you call consumption... I've seen articles in newspapers about living green which don't involve hybrid cars, biofuels, solar powered garden lights ect ect

    It's adverts for green holidays... Fly to Ecuador to plant trees... wtf?

    You don't always have to be perfect though.

    Flying to ecuador to learn more about the environment and plant some trees will do better than flying to ecuador to go offroading.

    Having said that, I'd probably do the second. In fact, I've been off-road quadbiking in three continents now. Rainforest in Thailand was the best though, it was the day after heavy showers and we had to make the route up as so many trees had fallen over.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    You don't always have to be perfect though.

    Flying to ecuador to learn more about the environment and plant some trees will do better than flying to ecuador to go offroading.

    Having said that, I'd probably do the second. In fact, I've been off-road quadbiking in three continents now. Rainforest in Thailand was the best though, it was the day after heavy showers and we had to make the route up as so many trees had fallen over.

    Or how about people NOT flying so far (if at all)?

    The issues I have with some of these companies and eco-consumerism altogether is that they market themselves as green, when consuming less is a million times better. People may argue, it's better to consume green than not to... It is. It's also better to punch somebody in the stomach rather than the face, it does less damage and hurts less... But you're still punching somebody.

    We need to be looking towards forming new habits, not perpetuating old ones by slapping an often misleading green label on them. Also, a lot of this 'green' and ethical business is over-priced.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I understand what you're saying, but people are going to travel regardless. So it's the lesser of the two evils, that will have less impact, etc.

    I mean not everyone is able to have a carbon neutral footprint, I think the little things do help.
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