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Comments
:yes: to all that.,
You are overlooking the violence and cruelty involved in a rape. To say you don't want to take sides between the practitioner of cruelty and the victim of it, is not natural. Even small children know to be repelled by cruelty, unless they have been somehow warped by the environment around them.
Maybe you are just trying to be open minded and non judgemental, I don't know, but beware you don't become so open minded that your brains fall out. When something is obviously wrong, like rape, murder, etc, you are not being too judgemental in just stating its wrong. That's just common sense.
This isn't a board where you can simply spout out everything in your head, especially given where you seem to be right now. So maybe a break migth be a good thing.
I think the video is too soft.
I wonder if you could argue this for a child abuser or wife beater.
Or the "women are meat" culture.
I disagree. Let's stop making women adapt to a men's world. We all know women will be blamed for being raped if they're not carrying rape alarms. I don't think it's about 'respect', but empathy and culture.
* Corrected because I typed it in a rush and it didn't come out as what I mean.
Men have the subconscious desire to rape? Well, that's a new one.
It depends on the circumstance. I would guess a lot of child abuse and domestic violence occurs when alcohol again, is involved. So yes, you could say that it does not mitigate the person's responsibility but alcohol plays it's part. The difference however being that rape is probably more spontaneous rather than the systems of abuse in both of your examples.
Are you just making this up as you go along?
It gets very tiresome when you need to reiterate the same points again, and again. Yes, rape is a violent crime and it's carried about by men, but in dealing with it we can't just say 'stupid men' and ignore the reasons it occurs. It's not justified in any way shape or form but the simple fact remains if you are less responsible for yourself than you are more likely to be a victim. Same with burglary. If you leave your windows open you're more likely to get burgled. You could use the same argument. Except, it doesn't have the punchy 'Let's stop making women adapt to a men's world' sound bite. I think empathy and culture are needed, along with respect. They go hand in hand.
I find it offensive you feel rape is what constitutes a 'man's world' or what men would have in their ideal world. And I think this is sometimes a prevalent view that all men are rapists (also referring to your comment about men subconsciously wanting to rape). I don't believe we live in a 'man's world', although that's a different argument altogether and we shouldn't change the debate about rape adverts into the oh so typical 'men vs. women' debate.
OMG I hate this analogy. Comparing leaving your windows open to leaving your body open is just a smokescreen. the two are not comparable. You are basically suggesting that if a woman puts herself in an unsafe situation, dresses in a certain way, or has a few drinks then that can be a reason why she was raped?
The reason for rape is not the way women fail to protect themselves.
Oh - and also - you object to the 'all men are rapists' idea and yet you are basically suggesting that women be wary of all men just incase. Which is it?
Ask that question again in an anarchist society.
The advert aims to change that perception.
Whatever you do there are always going to be some men who rape women, but at least some of rapes can be prevented by better education...
what if part of that education is encouraging women to think of all men as potential rapists?
Do you mean an anarchist society or a society in a state of anarchy?
In Bosnia rape was definetly more widespread than it was in Hampstead, but even then it was committed by a minority, others looked on by approvingly, others looked on by neutrally and others looked on by in disgust, but couldn't do much about it...
British and American soldiers?
You may be more likely to be a victim if you are putting yourself in a dangerous situation but in no way should it affect the case or be blamed on the woman. I think it is dangerous territory to even consider how the woman was clothed, where she was at the time. It has no bearing whatsoever because rape can happen anywhere to anyone. Rape is about power- not how short someone's skirt is.
Yes, but everyone involved had originally come from a society where rape is probably considered the worst crime imaginable. Of course people who have grown up in a relatively stable society will be unlikely to commit rape. My understanding is that in a tribal situation though, it is a very common weapon of war.
Bosnia was one of the main examples of rape being used as a weapon of war - but in no way by British and American soldiers. Serbian troops were encouraged, actively, to carry out rapes.
There's plenty of other examples - such as the rape of Nanking in 1937, the estimated 200,000 women raped in the Bagladeshi war for independence in 1971.
However the Bosnia conflict is held up as an example because of the part it played in ethnic cleansing. Women were raped to 'Serbianise' their future children. It was also why the Pakistani troops raped so many women in Bangladesh.
There are striking examples of occupying forces being involved in an increase in rape - such as in Japan following the second world war. The examples of Bosnia, Darfur, Nanking and others in the 20th and 21st century are different though. These mass rapes of women and children are deliberate, enforced military choices designed to humiliate and destroy cultures and resistance.
And without the UN peace keeping troops, when they were sent in, the problem would have been much worse - American and UK troops prevented further problems when they were eventually deployed, they didn't increase it.
The post wasn't relevant to this debate though, it was just intended to clear up the comment made by Byny, since for obvious reasons Flashman had deleted his initial reply. So let's not labour the point.
As for the topic of rape adverts, I've no problem with raising awareness, as long as it doesn't peddle to stupid lines such as "all men are rapists, beware" and other such nonsense.
To me that just sounds like the recognition and organisation of something that has been occuring for years. It has happened in tribal warfare for millennia. The US army, for example, just takes basic male coalitionary violence, and uses advanced training to impliment it more effectively, and on a massive scale. The holocaust is the same thing. The rounding up and systematic execution of an entire tribe of people isn't anything new, just the methods, scale and organisation have changed.
I doubt if that was anything to do with continuing the Aryan race.
But agin - sorry for the diversion - back to the adverts eh?