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Those graffiti artists who got ridiculous sentences...
Former Member
Posts: 1,875,648 The Mix Honorary Guru
The law prevails it seems :cool:
http://www.macclesfield-express.co.uk/news/s/1021969_jailed_graffiti_pair_walk_free
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7067883.stm
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http://www.macclesfield-express.co.uk/news/s/1021969_jailed_graffiti_pair_walk_free
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7067883.stm
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Comments
How is a pair of convicted criminals who have caused £13,000 worth of damage that WE will end up paying for an example of the law prevailing?
More of a case of if you shout loud enough we'll do whatever you want, law be damned.
I don't see how the trains were "damaged". I'm sure they work just as adequately as before. And as long as it's not offensive, I don't see why they shouldn't be put to work as they are.
if someone was to put paint all over your car you would say it was damaged?
How compassionate.
Of course the argument of 'what is art' is a very complex one and in a way there are no right or wrong answers, but by tyranny of the majority alone, most of us seem to think the above is unsighty and unpleasant, and since it is also done without permission it is a nuisance and we should try to get rid of it and prevent further instances of it.
Frankly, I can't see how anyone but the author of that graffiti could possibly argue it is art or pleasant. It is an eyesore, and perhaps more to the point it is not conceived as a work of art but as a repetitive 'marking of territory' exercise not unlike a tomcat pissing on walls and trying to assert his authority as the daddy of the local area.
Having said that, a custodial sentence for a first offence seems excessive. I would give them a suspended sentence based on future behaviour, and a few hundred community hours to be spent cleaning up theirs and other people's graffiti. Surely that is more constructive all around than sending a first time offender to jail?
I don't know really. Nobody should be vandalizing property really. I don't agree with the argument that it's freedom of expression and so on.
The thing I objected to, was that it was a first offence, that people who perpetrate much more damaging and serious crimes don't get as harsh sentences, and that the judge had not taken their character into account - that they helped in the community and so on. It was apparent, the judge was making an example of them. Whether that was so he could say it wasn't acceptable and send a 'harsh message' to other spray painters, or whether it was because he just didn't like these two guys - who knows. What I do know, is whatever the motives behind it, it's unfair and unjust to give offenders - for any offense - a harsher sentence than they deserve on the basis that you're 'making an example' i.e. political needs.
In one way, although I don't like to compare them to others who've suffered much worse, it makes them to be a sort of political prisoner.
Which is exactly why on appeal the verdict was overturned. Unless of course, the legal system is so concerned with politics now and how it appears, that they released them because it was what the public wanted. If that's the case, then we'll be chopping off thieves hands, quartering peadophiles, allowing people to torture people who break into their homes, and so on.
The legal system is old, and may be flawed, but it's underlying rule is that it should be at some level detached from politics so it can give an impartial and fair judgement to everyone.
So you'd be perfectly happy for me to come and spray paint your car then? EVERYBODY's train fares go into removing the shite these people spray on and it is damaging private property, it should carry a heavy fine or criminal sentence.
I must say I've been seeing a lot more train graffiti over the last couple or days and weeks. maybe the courts decision has provided budding artists with some inspiration. :rolleyes:
It wasn't a 'first offence'. They were caught by their work at a number of locations (at least 8) across the North West including several trains stabled in stations and depots.
It is worth noting that about a 5 or 6 train units across the North are out of service right now being cleaned and having graffiti removed as its not a quick and easy job, thats 6 trains that could be extending congested services across the North!
You wouldnt call your car being spray painted on "damage"? What would you call it then?
Are you even for real? I know what would happen if some little twat spray painted my car, and it wouldn't be me telling everyone "it's just art".
Yea I agree. It's a shame we can't have 'common sense' law where you're made to fix the damage, rather than go to prison. Give them a pair of jetwashers, get a supervisor, and watch them
It applies to a lot of things - if you steal someones car, even if you go to prison you don't need to 'pay out'. I really think that you should have to pay compensation.
Its a nice idea, but bearing in mind it can take a professional team of 6-8 all day to sort 3 units out then maybe not as practical.
These fellas shouldn't be sent to prison, they should be made to clean it all off or be made to pay monthly installments until the cost to clean it up is paid for.
Yea, I'm not sure I'd class it as 'criminal damage', but rather vandalism. It's like the degree of crime:
criminal crimes are very serious, murder, assault, criminal damage (like arson)
misdemeanors (not sure how they're classed or if they're classed in the UK) are like, anti social behaviour, vandalism, petty theft, harassment - things that are by no means good but certainly not in the same league as beating someone with a crowbar
Yea as in the previous thread, the distinction I made was that while a crime may come under a broad heading, our judges have more leeway than in other countries where they have compulsory sentences for a crime, and the issue in this crime was that the sentence did seem very disproportionate to the crime. I don't think the UK system needs changing, I just think this judge made a poor judgement. If (I think it was whowhere or BritJames or someone said) the case is that all crimes in the UK are judged too leniantly that's a different issue and should come from the top courts.
But at a single case level a judge has an obligation to deliver a fair sentence - meaning that it is in line with other similar crimes - and in this case it did not seem at all fair.
But it's not "damaged" as long as I can still take it and drive as easily as I did before.
I still think it counts as 'damage'. Theoretically, someone could smash all your windows - the engine still works. They could rip the roof off - DIY convertible.
I love it when people say things like this to me. "What you nicking me for, I only took some beer, you should be out looking for real criminals/paedophiles e.t.c.).
Because Paedophiles are obviously everywhere, and they advertise as well. :rolleyes:
true tho at times .. get police standing wasting time harassing you over drinking a tin of beer in public etc etc .. surely theres more productive things to be done :chin: