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If people like shooting there should be shooting clubs for all to enjoy. And at the end of the day they can leave the weapons where they belong- at the shooting club.
The big picture is the original topic of the thread, whilst you just ask 'speculation?' 'admitted speculation?' to every post, you never ask constructive questions, I said I think handguns should be banned, you then asked should nobody be allowed them... well that's just what I said wasn't it? Yes there may be leeway in exceptional circumstances, but they're banned in the UK, PCs don't carry them, creating a gun free environment which correlates statistically with our lower rate of gun crime and gun fatalities.
Or is that pure coincidence? You just seem to be saying statistics don't mean anything really, they're just arbitary numbers with no link to real life whatsoever, which kind of undermines centuries of scientific methodology. And starting that debate here is completely derailing the thread.
Good point Jim. We won't reply to you anymore.
The statistics are true, but its not the whole picture. The Uk banned handguns which were held by a statistically small part of the population. Since that time gun crime has actually increased, so you could use statistics to show making firearms illegal leads to increased gun crime (I don't believe that to be honest there's a whole host of factors).
You can't compare England, Scotland and Wales to the US. Removing guns from the former is easy, removing them from the latter is a lot more difficult. Especially since many of the areas with high gun legal gun ownership and with fewer restrictions suffer few gun deaths than parts of the US with stronger legal controls.
I agree though. I think that firearm control is part of the problem, but it is in no way the biggest issue, which is why people feel the need to own a gun in the first place. Like you said, Britain had legal firearms, yet nobody actually owned them, so why was that? That fact also pretty much renders any argument that any increase in gun crime is a result of poor citizen not being able to defend themselves against the criminals that still have them, because the vast, vast majority of these poor citizens never had a gun to defend themselves in the first place.
Ignoring the false "every", those two posts of mine where to assertions by others that seemed like pure speculation to me.
So that`s a "no".
The thread was started with this sole assertion:
My contributions initially consisted of stating facts in response to what seemed like the false claims of others.
This was followed by discourse with others with me disagreeing from a moral/philosophical point of view to others. Isn`t that what a debate is ? :chin:
You eventually joined in by accusing me of derailing the thread and ignoring the big picture.Bizarre.
Back to your question.
I`d suggest that statistics are merely a tool. Useful at times, misleading at others.
I, no doubt, could dig up pages of statistics that prove(
Then you could reply with pages more that prove (
Is that what you would like to do ( perhaps in the interests of science) ?
As you pointed out in the former paragraph, "gun crime" is what you make it.
Given that,I`m unsure who, if anyone,in this thread has presented the argument that any increase in gun crime is a result of poor citizen not being able to defend themselves against the criminals that still have them.