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Tories in 'best shape for ten years'...

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Most conversations at bus stops, supermarkets and pubs are about Heat magazine, Kylie's arse and Pop Idol. The majority of people are incredibly dense - another reason why Labour are in power.

    Sounds an equally valid argument as to why Thatcher remained in power for so long whilst she and her government bled the nation and its services dry.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by kevlar85
    More people are being encouraged to go to university because it gives Britain a competitive advantage to have a large number of highly educated people in the workforce. Because as you correctly said, they aren't enough jobs in the less skilled fields as these are going abroad and as you correctly point out Labour recognises this.

    Wrong again. Labour are shitting themselves because there aren't enough jobs overall. And they can't figure out how to generate more.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you do the International Baccalaureate? If so then please enlighten me as to how you can value the nature of exams that you haven't sat? There have been a large number of new universities and further education colleges entering the educational establishment and these offer lower grades than traditional universities but I think you'll find that the qualifications needed for the top universities remain as rigorous as ever.

    I did, and I'm very glad. I don't need to sit the exams, the statistics speak for themselves. Why would I want to be associated with a farsical system? Why do you think that several of the major independent schools are considering a switch to the IB?

    Apart from a small number of exceptions (Oxbridge, Warwick, LSE and Bristol), standards are being lowered all over the country.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3117020.stm
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Sounds an equally valid argument as to why Thatcher remained in power for so long whilst she and her government bled the nation and its services dry.

    Touche. :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by squat_tom
    Your point being? They were truthful from the start as to their reasons for supporting the war.
    Really? I thought they just agreed with the government? At least the government lied which shows the capacity to think, the Tories and warmongerers like you just swallowed the lies, hook, line and sinker. Ever feel like a mug?

    No, they don't. Very few people actually care about politics. If they did, Labour wouldn't be in power.

    Most conversations at bus stops, supermarkets and pubs are about Heat magazine, Kylie's arse and Pop Idol. The majority of people are incredibly dense - another reason why Labour are in power.

    I'd agree that most people aren't interested in politics per se. However they are interested in the state of the health service, education, public transport and other public services in themselves and as it affects their daily lives. So where politics can be said to enter peoples lives Labour is reflecting their concerns and spending more on providing decent public services.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by squat_tom
    Wrong again. Labour are shitting themselves because there aren't enough jobs overall. And they can't figure out how to generate more.
    :lol: Evidence? This is pure unadultered BS. The unemployment rate is falling. That is the simple truth. Not only that but more people are in employment than ever before meaning there are more jobs than ever before. If what you said even applied in the long term surely unemployment would be increasing - even in the 80s boom years unemployment never fell below 2 million. Under Labour jobs are up, unemployment is down - simple enough even for you to grasp.

    I did, and I'm very glad. I don't need to sit the exams, the statistics speak for themselves. Why would I want to be associated with a farsical system? Why do you think that several of the major independent schools are considering a switch to the IB?
    Because the snob appeal of the A-Level has gone because the "commoners" are now taking it in increasing numbers, sadly it's a common attitude at many independent schools. Also you only said "considering" when they actually switch you might just have a point. :rolleyes: And it's not for me to say if you wouldn't be able to cope with the depth of A-Level studies.

    Apart from a small number of exceptions (Oxbridge, Warwick, LSE and Bristol), standards are being lowered all over the country.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3117020.stm
    Do you include Cardiff in that assessment?
    Funny that article says nothing about standards being lowered. What it does say is that the "snob appeal" of the universities you mention is leading to a high number of rejections because students are not applying to universities that score the same or higher ratings with the same grade offers, in other words snobby students are getting rejected because they won't apply to universities that have been found to be just as good.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by kevlar85
    Really? I thought they just agreed with the government? At least the government lied which shows the capacity to think, the Tories and warmongerers like you just swallowed the lies, hook, line and sinker. Ever feel like a mug?

    Not especially. I never went in for the whole WMD thing. I just saw the valid argument for gaining control of a valuable economic resource.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by squat_tom

    Most conversations at bus stops, supermarkets and pubs are about Heat magazine, Kylie's arse and Pop Idol. The majority of people are incredibly dense - another reason why Labour are in power.
    most people are incredibly dense ...i know i'll get it in the neck here for mentioning education again but ...this is the sort of educated idiot i am usualy reffering to.
    please squat tom ...you of all people must be able to shed light on what tory policy is ...should they by any chance gain power.
    come on ...what are conservative policies for the 21st century ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    what are conservative policies for the 21st century ...

    This is where I get my information from: http://www.conservatives.com/party/policydocuments.cfm

    http://www.conservatives.com/campaigns/

    Straight from the horse's mouth, as it were.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by kevlar85

    Do you include Cardiff in that assessment?
    Funny that article says nothing about standards being lowered. What it does say is that the "snob appeal" of the universities you mention is leading to a high number of rejections because students are not applying to universities that score the same or higher ratings with the same grade offers, in other words snobby students are getting rejected because they won't apply to universities that have been found to be just as good.

    Yes. There are certain departments at Cardiff that are among the best in the country, but have low entry requirements. Apparently, there just isn't the interest in Wales' biggest uni. Or perhaps it's because it's for a science-based course, rather than something 'useful' like meeja stoodys. :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is this the point where I bring up yesterday's by-election in Brent?

    You know, the one where Labour got their arses kicked.

    You know, the one where the votes rejected the Tories.

    You know, the one where the votes showed that they prefer the Lib Dems over the Tories, even when they are really disillusioned with Labour.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent
    Is this the point where I bring up yesterday's by-election in Brent?

    You know, the one where Labour got their arses kicked.

    You know, the one where the votes rejected the Tories.

    You know, the one where the votes showed that they prefer the Lib Dems over the Tories, even when they are really disillusioned with Labour.

    Shouldn't you be more concerned that Labour lost one of its strongest seats? The NHS won't be able to function very well on just hugs and hand-wringing.

    The Tories had a very high number of votes for an area that is traditional very Socialist.

    The Liberal Democrats never have, nor never will be, a serious opposition. Besides which, history is littered with surprise by-election wins that have not developed into anything significant.

    It should also be noted that 'Comedy Terrorist' Aaron Barschack registered 37 votes. People are stupid.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by squat_tom
    Shouldn't you be more concerned that Labour lost one of its strongest seats? The NHS won't be able to function very well on just hugs and hand-wringing.

    No they won't, you're right.

    But then which party suggested that 1p should go on income tax, to help pay for the NHS? Sounds like coldhard cash to me.

    Certainly better than the bullshit ideas that the Tories are suggesting for the NHS.
    The Tories had a very high number of votes for an area that is traditional very Socialist.

    Bollocks, but if that consoles you then feel free to tell yourself that.

    What they got was a reminder that they are possibly the most ineffective opposition in a generation.
    The Liberal Democrats never have, nor never will be, a serious opposition.

    Check history and you will find them having formed a Govt in the past.

    Note also that even when the votes are disaffected, they don't turn to the Tories. That should be a BIG worry to you. The Tories still came third.
    It should also be noted that 'Comedy Terrorist' Aaron Barschack registered 37 votes. People are stupid.

    No, 37 people are stupid.

    NB Do not assume from my comments that I am a Lib Dem supporter.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    All that the Tories are doing is to say that they don't need to spend as much of taxpayer's money, because they do not need to spend stupid amounts implementing useless initiatives.


    The Tories have not had much strength in Brent for nearly 20 years. Political commentators were expecting a much lower count.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Tories had Brent a little over 15 years ago. The population hasn't changed into a bunch of one-legged vegetarian Guardian-reading lefties overnight.

    They simply saw the Tories as an extremely unatractive party. In fact their vote went down by 2%.

    If the Tories cannot make gains- let alone winning the seat- at by-elections (the time when opposition parties do perform better), and specially at a time when discontent with the government is at its highest level ever, then when will they do?

    Don't let your fascination for the Tories blind you. Last night result was bad, bad bad for the Tories whichever way you look at it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    15 years is a long time, especially in politics. It is practically a generation, and more than enough time for drastic changes to occur in the make-up of a community.

    It wasn't good news for the Tories, but it certainly wasn't as bad as expected. It's certainly a lot worse for Labour.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It was a disaster for Labour, but from the Tories' point of view the future is very grim indeed. If they fail to make any gains when public discontent with the government is at its highest, then the chances of the Tories winning the next General Election are absolute zero.

    I wanted the Tories to do better to be honest. I am delighted that IDS is the leader of the Party, and I wouldn't want him being replaced by someone who might actually attract votes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    I wanted the Tories to do better to be honest. I am delighted that IDS is the leader of the Party, and I wouldn't want him being replaced by someone who might actually attract votes.

    It certainly wouldn't hurt to have a leader who is more enigmatic and media savvy.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah yes, if ya cant win voters with substantive policies, dazzle them with even more lies and spin eh?

    Interesting that someone who so vociferously attacks the Blair govt for its spin and lies should wish to be duped further by Tory spin.

    Obviously you dont care how truly bankrupt the Tory agenda is so long as it's packaged with more media savvy. :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Ah yes, if ya cant win voters with substantive policies, dazzle them with even more lies and spin eh?

    Interesting that someone who so vociferously attacks the Blair govt for its spin and lies should wish to be duped further by Tory spin.

    Obviously you dont care how truly bankrupt the Tory agenda is so long as it's packaged with more media savvy. :rolleyes:

    Funny, I don't remember saying that. :rolleyes: I don't think that IDS needs his own Alistair Campbell, I just think that he needs better public recognition. Big difference.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and the tories are at their best for ten years ...you gotta laugh aint ya!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by squat_tom
    Shouldn't you be more concerned that Labour lost one of its strongest seats? The NHS won't be able to function very well on just hugs and hand-wringing.
    No but then it didn't function all that well when it was underinvested in the Thatcher and Major years and had to rely on charities for some crucial services and had to stop operations such as open heart surgery because of a lack of cash.

    The Tories had a very high number of votes for an area that is traditional very Socialist.
    :lol: You keep telling yourself that. As has been said their vote fell by 2% despite all the crises affecting the government. Also the turnout was abysmal which artificially lifted the Tory percentage of the vote because Labour voters are more likely to stay at home. They didn't even run Labour a close second, they got approximately half Labour's votes.

    To be honest the Tories are in a worse state than Labour ever was in the 80s. Labour won by-elections in the 80s, Labour had leads in the opinion polls mid-term, Labour was seen to have the best policies on the public services.

    Incidentally, throughout the 60s/70s period of Labour dominance the Tories were able to win by-elections such as in 1968 in Walthamstow or in 1977 in Ashfield in Nottinghamshire. Specifically relating to Brent, the Tories had control of the council for most of the 90s, held the seat in their 1983 landslide and ran Labour a close second in 1987.

    The Liberal Democrats never have, nor never will be, a serious opposition. Besides which, history is littered with surprise by-election wins that have not developed into anything significant.
    I wouldn't be so complacent if I were you. I'm not the biggest fan of the Lib Dems but even I can see they are steadily increasing in the opinion polls long term, as are their seats not just in Parliament but in councils, the European Parliament and the devolved assemblies (Incidentally where in Scotland and Wales they aren't just the opposition, they're the government.)

    It should also be noted that 'Comedy Terrorist' Aaron Barschack registered 37 votes. People are stupid.
    Three words. Clutching. At. Straws.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by kevlar85
    Those who go to university are extending their skills and are gaining knowledge which will make Britain more competitive in skills and knowledge.

    I have a University degree and it has been absolutely no use at all in helping me get a job. I would have been better off going to college and learning a trade. Skills and knowledge alone won't create wealth. We need to get the right skills and knowledge in the right places. The economy won't work if everybody is a media studies graduate. We need a large pool of labour to do basic jobs like driving trucks and laying bricks.

    The way things are going we are going to have a significant number of people with degrees doing menial jobs.

    Anyway, back on subject I think Oliver Letwin should be the next Tory leader. He does at least seem to be a bit more media-savvy than IDS. And his surname could be used as a rallying cry "Let (us) Win!"
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