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CCTV - 1984 turning into reality....

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent
    The Govt love people who say things like that. Easy prey.

    How many other rights don't you care about? Losing the right to freedom of speech won't *harm* you, but I doubt you'd give it up so easily.

    This is about the right to walk freely without being under the constant scrutiny of the Govt. It makes no difference whether you have anything to hide or not, by monitoring everything you do [within the scope of the cameras] they Govt is effectively suggesting that you are guilty of something, they just haven't found out what yet...

    If they have no reason to suspect *you* then why do they need to watch you?
    They aren't watching me. There is some guy sitting monitoring the cameras looking for thieves and the like, if he sees me, the most he might do is comment on my fat arse! Comparing the freedom to walk around and not be filmed with the right to freedom of speech is not the same thing. I am happy with the level of CCTV and in all honesty if it were to catch more criminals and help more prosecutions then I would like more of it. Just because you don't feel the same doesn't mean to say I am going to change my opinion on the matter. I don't feel like I am being "watched" - it doesn't make me uneasy.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What concerns me is the slippery slope, we rationalise that the errotion of some freedoms in 'these times' is needed, then we loose another and so on.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    What concerns me is the slippery slope, we rationalise that the errotion of some freedoms in 'these times' is needed, then we loose another and so on.
    What others?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BumbleBee
    They aren't watching me.

    Er... yes they are. They are watching everyone. The camera doesn't blank you out just because you aren't a convicted criminal. They don't read intent.

    The person wtching that camera (or reviewing the film) is looking at us all.
    Comparing the freedom to walk around and not be filmed with the right to freedom of speech is not the same thing.

    Yes it is. They are both fundamental to freedom.

    Are you happy that all your e-mails are likely to be monitored? Do you know if your ISP has an agreement with the Govt?
    all honesty if it were to catch more criminals and help more prosecutions then I would like more of it

    And there is the slippery slope.

    How many other "irghts" would you happily trade for the illusion of security?

    CCTV doesn't prevent crime. CCTV prevents crime in the areas where there are cameras.
    Just because you don't feel the same doesn't mean to say I am going to change my opinion on the matter. I don't feel like I am being "watched" - it doesn't make me uneasy.

    I don't expect your opinion to change. But you do need to ask yourself a question.

    In the "Do you trust" thread, most people said no, we don't trust Govts. So, why trust them on this?

    Whether you feel like you feel like you are being watched isn;t the issue. That you are being watched, is.

    [edited to add]
    Originally posted by BumbleBee
    What others?

    The right not to be imprisoned without charge, trial, details of the allegations against you...

    Blunkett's Law in response to WTC
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent

    1. Er... yes they are. They are watching everyone. The camera doesn't blank you out just because you aren't a convicted criminal. They don't read intent.

    2. How many other "irghts" would you happily trade for the illusion of security?

    3. CCTV doesn't prevent crime. CCTV prevents crime in the areas where there are cameras.

    4. In the "Do you trust" thread, most people said no, we don't trust Govts. So, why trust them on this?
    1. They are watching me yes, what I mean is they are only interested in seeing if I am committing a crime which I have never done, so I don't care. I am happy for someone to watch me, there are 100s of other people in crowded city centre streets for then to watch too. If they are spending all their energy focusing on me then I am quite flattered actually.

    2. I don't believe CCTV to be an illusion. I direct you back to the earlier example I used about the young girl who was in the process of being attack and/or abducted - CCTV prevented that crime. If CCTV had not been there this would be a far different tale. CCTV is used to prosecute criminals and even track them down. Pictures released from the police showing people wanted in connection with crimes come from CCTV footage oh so often.

    3. Exactly, which is why I advocate that there should be more CCTV cameras in crime blackspots. I would rather give up my freedom to not be filmed than have my car vandalised or stolen.

    4. I don't quite understand what you mean. Trust them on what? Trust them that they aren't filming me for other, more sinister reasons?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BumbleBee
    1. They are watching me yes, what I mean is they are only interested in seeing if I am committing a crime which I have never done, so I don't care.

    Never?

    Not even litter dropping?

    :eek:

    That they watch you means that you are under suspicion. As you say, they have no reason to suspect you of anything. So why should they watch you.

    The vast majority of the public are [within reason] law abiding, so why must we all be watched?
    2. I don't believe CCTV to be an illusion.

    So why is crime on the increase?

    Unless you are going to put CCTV on every building (including residentials) then crime will simply move somewhere else.

    The next rapist, won't do it in an area covered by CCTV... so then what. How far do you want to take CCTV?
    4. I don't quite understand what you mean. Trust them on what? Trust them that they aren't filming me for other, more sinister reasons?

    You are told that CCTV is there to prevent crime, yet crime is rising...

    There are people in this country who the Govt would like to keep an eye on. The Security Service has files on people they consider "subversive" and these people are monitored. You have no way of finding out if you are on this list. Worth noting that Jack Straw is someone who our intelligence services used to watch... but there are others...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent

    Not even litter dropping?



    There are people in this country who the Govt would like to keep an eye on. The Security Service has files on people they consider "subversive" and these people are monitored. You have no way of finding out if you are on this list.
    No, not even litter dropping. You obviously don't know me very well if you would even suggest that....

    I can pretty much say with 99% accuracy that I am the most uninteresting person in the world, and I pity anyone who is forced to watch me.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Perhaps the money spent on CCTV would be better directed on recruiting more policemen , in order to actually catch the criminals commiting the crime.
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