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Why are you being so mean to wee wuman fair enough debate about this subject but when it boils down to it she has a serious problem and your taking the piss, so before you start calling us racist, you should stop taking the piss out of people worse off than yourself.
yes, just to clarify, I'm talking more about a Jr docs hours/pay etc, for all you lovely pedantic people out there, but you get my point
there you go bumble bee, there is my first post for you to read and see that the point of the topic was not that i couldnt understand the doc it was about his bad attitude so please get your facts straight!
i guess if you sight was threatened you would be happy to settle for less than good treatment! i want the best possible care.
as for offending the doc by asking to see a different doc (which we asked at reception not to his face as when you go in you see whoever doesnt have a patient when its your turn), would you go back to see the same hairdresser if they gave you bad service before so you didnt offend them? if the last time you were getting treatment and you told the doc you were in pain and he ignored your pleas when any other doc in the past treatments have offered to stop and give you a rest, and he left you crying and distressed, would you want to see him again so you didnt offend him , i think not. its distressing enough to have any serious medical conditions and docs are meant to help with distress. you dont know the full story so before you start calling me a wimp and saying other crap get your facts straight and damn well read the first post!
Susie :eek:
I personally cannot see how that is offensive. It is 100% true. If you wanted to see another doctor you would probably still be waiting to see him. As it is, you have seen a doctor and had you treatment assessed or whatever.
I KNOW docs are busy, ive been to hospital enough times to realise this. i know they work hard and if you had read my first post i said i had great respect for them and without docs we would be screwed but that doesnt mean i have to settle for second best treatment does it? i am more than grateful for my treatment cos without it i would go blind for definate but at least this is giving me a chance. look at itt from my point of view, would you not want excellent care ?
2. I am more concerned about the clinical skills of the doctor than his ability to speak the language. Fine, so he can speak perfect Queen's English. Won't mean a thing if he fucks up your treatment though will it? Rodney Ledward spoke english wonderfully but still managed to butcher women. I'm sure Harold Shipman's english was pretty good too...
3. Doctors are unbelievably busy. In part this is because so many patients waste their time with ailments not requiring a doctor's intervention. Partly this is because of the demand on thier services. They only have so many hours in the day, and yet we all want to see them. Many clinic now, due to demand, only have 5 minutes slots for each patient. During this time the doctor needs to read you notes, examine you, make a diagnosis, discuss this with you, make recommendations on treatment and write all of this in your records. You need to bear that in mind when you complain about the amount of time you want with them
4. It's always worth considering whether you actually need to see a doctor. THe are many specialist nurses around who can often be as much help. Additionally nurses tend to see you as a human being whereas doctors tend to see the condition first (some forgetting that there is a person attached to that condition)
5. If you don't understand what was said, say so. Don't walk out and then complain about it. The consultation is a two way thing. You are as much a part of it as the doctor.
6. And wee wuman you are right. You shouldn't accept substandard service and you should complain if you aren't happy. But that doesn't mean that you should instantly have access to another doctor. Remember that there are several other patients in the clinic, and they would also like to get chance to see the doctor. If you want a second opinion then you should be prepared to come back for it, rather than making other people wait even longer.
i was told the last time i went to ask to see the other doctor. i was told i would have to wait and was prepared to do so. i wasnt making anyone else wait, i was the one waiting! i wasnt ;ooking for a second opinion either.
has nobody read my first post properly? all i was doing was having a rant about the doctors attitude, not about wanting a second opinion or about understanding him or about waiting or anything like that. my point was i was rushed out the door and was not treated properly, as a human being and was given little information. and further more the doc has to see me, i cannot just see a nurse about my condition, it rquires a specialist as you know man of kent.
we all deserve the best when it comes to our health. and i didnt not do anything about it either. the head of department was contacted and it was explained to him and he fully understood and told us that it is not the first time that this certain doc has had his attitude commented on.
yeah but the last bit was. i didnt expect access to another doc, i was told to ask for the other doc when i came for my appointment and this was ignored which is the reason i ended up seeing the other doc. before going in with him i said to a nurse i was meant to be seeing someone else and she told me that the other doc was coming in to see me.
i wasnt wanting a second opinion, i was wanting to be informed full stop not to have to ask about my eyes and the treatment. he knows what he sees when he looks at the back of my eyes, i dont and im not pyschic!
i wasnt making anyone wait either. i was the one who was to wait and i was fully prepared to as i know docs are very busy, im not a moron!
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
please read my first post. i know docs do a great job!(THE MAJORITY)
my whole point was he had a bad attitude and gave me no feedback on my condition!
AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH
:crazyeyes
Did you mean would not? Otherwise I don't understand what you are saying there. Also, I personally think - though this is a side issue - that people living in this country should make the effort to learn the language.
Shipman has no relevance to this discussion.
I would also be concerned with a doctor's clinical ability, but part of that ability in the wider sense is his or her bedside manner. If the doctor is unintelligable, or his or her poor command of the language makes him appear brusk and rude to his patients then he has failed in his quest to be a good doctor in my opinion.
Business is no excuse for poor treatment. Also, a doctor with a poor grasp of the language is going to spend more time trying to explain stuff or will leave patients feeling no better off than before they went to see the doctor.
I think that the rather obvious point here is that people should not have to say that they do not undestand stuff. The doctor should be versed enough in both practice and speech to be able to put across what is wrong or not wrong clearly, concisely and first time.
I did, sorry, typo.
Good idea, in Utopia. Day to day reality is that this doesn't and will not happen. You are talking about second languages here, and no matter how people try the vast majority of any population will not master their second language to such a degree. Worth also noting that the interpreters don't have medical knowledge.
Really, I think his clinical skills underlined the point I was trying to make. He may speak have spoken English, but he killed his patients. Point I was making was that clinical skills should be the highest priority here.
My first priority is that he administers the correct treament. Fuck that up and his command of the language becomes very much a secondary consideration, wouldn't you say.
I agree that his bedside manner is an issue, but it certainly doesn't override his clinical capabilities.
The treatment of the patient will make them feel better physically, but I agree that emotions are affected by the way people talk to you.
The point I was trying to make here is that demand for Drs outweighs capacity. If you want to spend as much time as you like with them then the NHS (and public as a whole) will have to accept that they will need to wait longer for a first appointment.
Either that or find more doctors.
Again, in an ideal world this would be possible. Sadly there are too many people in this country for whom the simplest explanation can be misunderstood.
Perhaps you could listen to a conversation relating to a Hip Operation. I'd like to think that I understand English reasonably well, but this even overloads me.
You could argue then that we are giving too much detail, and I would agree. Except that the outcome of the Bristol Heart scandal and legal precendence means that before a patient consents to any procedure, they should be given full details about what will happen, alternatives and the relevant potential complications.
I'm not saying in any of this that Doctors don't have much to learn about people skills, and to be honest if find them the most difficult of all the professionals I deal with on a daily basis. What I am saying is that patients need to take some responsibility for the consultation - as I said there are two people involved in it, not just the doctor.
Sorry I'm 'ignoring' the rest of the post (I'm not, but it may seem like I am), but I just wanted to ask you more about this?
True, the majority of any population will not master their second language to fluency, but if they are living in the country, it should be to a high standard. If you ask any university student who studies languages about their year abroad, they will tell you that they are able to speak the language much more fluently after living around people who speak it as their first language.
The majority of foreign doctors, I think you'll agree are from Asian countries; India, Pakistan etc. In these countries, as far as I'm aware, they learn languages younger than here. In Pakistan, I think children start learning English at about 9 - I have a friend who moved to England from Pakistan two years ago. He spoke good English when he first got here, although admittedly it was hard to understand without a lot of concentration. Within a few months his accent was much more understandable, and after about 8 months he was perfectly fluent.
Surely this shows that in day to day reality, when surrounded by people speaking English as a first language, it is possible for foreigners to learn the language to an understandable level.
Depends on the education though, doesn't it. When you talk about Doctors you are loooking at an intelligent (sometimes
As for understanding the language, this discussion highlights the fact that even this [educated] group of people have difficulty in making themselves understood.
A recent survey suggested that the NHS suffers from racism. As I work in this service, I was taken aback by this and so posted something in the Politics Forum. Subsequently I spoke to a few people myself, and one doctor (asian!) really opened my eyes with some of the things he said. Not issues he faced himself, but issues faced by patients, daily, because of their background and language difficulties.