The anti-war march

Former Member · February 2003

Our forefathers didnt face threats as diffuse and untargettable as global terrorism though did they MoK?

As for "conclusions", what makes you think that any puppet regime installed by the West wont inevitably be either overthrown in years to come, when public attention reverts back to its normal sheepish inward condition or else upon some newly hyped up villain elsewhere? Or perhaps, which could likely be the case given tendencies toward authrotiarianism in the part of the globe, should whatever regime succeeds Saddam continue with similar oppression on the population (without the oh so sympathetic media attention now given to the issue)?

Won't be much of a solution then will it, save that it'll be US corporate elites whose bank accounts are being filled rather than those of the Europe.

Former Member · February 2003

Some group in the EU is already meeting regarding providing post-war humanitarian aide. There will be a Muslim democracy in Iraq within 2 years. And we'll stay as long as we have to...just like we did in Germany. What I can see happening, is the US pulling out of Europe. Without the Soviet Union, what point is there for us to have troops in Germany?

Former Member · February 2003

No there will be a puppet regime, no hallowed democracy dear boy. And yes, we'll stay in order to keep it propped up regardless of what the Iraqi people might wish. No great liberation there.

Former Member · February 2003

Well excuse my red, white and blue starry eyes.:rolleyes:

Former Member · February 2003

Understandable. Reagan put stars in my eyes after the Carter years when I was young and naive like yourself.

Former Member · February 2003

Some group in the EU is already meeting regarding providing post-war humanitarian aide. There will be a Muslim democracy in Iraq within 2 years. And we'll stay as long as we have to...just like we did in Germany. What I can see happening, is the US pulling out of Europe. Without the Soviet Union, what point is there for us to have troops in Germany?

A military dictatorship under General Tommy Franks will be established under an American occupation. A local elite of traitors who serve the interests of the occupying American troops will be put in power in puppet goverments. The population of Iraq will be reduced to vassals and their natural resources will be plundered. Their infrastructure will be destroyed in the invasion in order to immiserate the population. The American humanitarians with their gullitoine will then use food as a weapon to establish themselves as masters over the population.

The world should be quite familiar with this policy. In America, NOTHING changes. This has been American policy for centuries. This is the policy America imposed upon Europe with the Morgenthau Plan. This is the policy America established in the aftermath of the Spanish-American war on Cuba and the Phillippines. This is the policy American imposed upon its own people in the aftermath of the War of Secession. LOL! How many stars on the America's own flag were coerced to joining their much beloved "union" at "gunpoint" in their supposedly "free" country? Yes, ratify this amendment or die! Sell your body to our soldiers for scraps of food. That is what American troops did in a conquered Vietnam, a conquered Europe, and a conquered American South. Thou shall be ruled from Washington DC or we shall invade your states and kill you by the hundreds of thousands! Just like in Europe, just like in Afghanistan and soon to be Iraq the United States occupied the American South in the 19th Century. The American Southern States were abolished by an imperial decree. Military dictatorships were established and "re-education" programs were put in place in order to destroy Southern Nationalism. The British did something similar with Ireland. A local elite of traitors, in the American South they were called scalawags were created. They were universally hated by Southerners for generations. Even today, a prejudice remains in the American South against the "Yankees," even among people who were able to overcome all prejudice against blacks. They ruled as puppet dictators over the American South for years. Then the American entrepenuers, the hated Yankee carpetbaggers, came in and bought up the property of the impoverished masses in the South. They made a fortune and reduced the Southern population to poverty and sharecropping for decades, both blacks and whites.

America is about to bomb Baghdad, Iraq just like it bombed Tokyo or Dresden. If need be, America will level those cities to the ground and reduce those populations to starvation just like the evangelical Yankees did to Atlanta, Georgia and Richmond, Virginia in their own country. It will continue to follow this policy perpetually into the future until it is stopped. The world will one day have to stop the madness of the American plutocracy.

Former Member · February 2003

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
Joe, a few of your comments there are incorrect.

I don't believe that war means a cut and dried solution. Just that it is the best solution available to us now.

I'm not suggesting that people won't come up with a credible alternative because Saddam will still be in power. I'm suggesting that whilst they claim to want to save lives, the diplmatic solution is also costing lives. I don't suggest from this that war will ultimately save lives, just that if lives are to be lost it would be better to have a conclusion rather than just the protracted situation we have at the moment.

I accept that warfare means that we increase the risk of attacks on us, in the short term. Put it this way, did our forefathers shy away from war because we might be attacked? No, it just made them more determined not to fail.

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As an aside, your suggestion of potential deaths "at home" may actually put another spin on the peace protestors motives. Not so much concerned about saving lives abroad, as their own

Although I know that's not what you intended...

What makes you think that isn't what I intended? It might sound like the words of a Little Englander, but he notion that Bush and Blair are putting Iraqi lives before American and British lives, without out any economic/strategic motivation is risible. I agree wih Greenhat to the extent that the Iraqi people have the government they deserve, especially given the aforementioned risk (wake up at the back there, Pnjsurferpoet!) that an intervention in Iraq unwelcomed by any arab state (does even Kuwait support Bush on this?) will create more danger for everyone, including the Iraqis.

Given how tangled up with Iraq the UN is at the moment, there is a slim chance of democratisation occuring more or less spontaneously. I don't believe that more military action, in addition to the aerial bombing currently going on that we hear so little about (thought that was America's response to Saddam's 'material breaches', but of course this was before they thought they could use 911 to expedite their longstanding agenda), is going to improve those adds.

Former Member · February 2003

Originally posted by Clandestine
Our forefathers didnt face threats as diffuse and untargettable as global terrorism though did they MoK?

So that is the challenge for our generation.

Former Member · February 2003

Ha! Terrorism is nothing but a nuisance at best. All empires deal with terrorism. Terrorism will not be any challenge of the rising American generation either. The REAL challenge that is going to face the rising American generation is the imminent collapse of the U.S. Empire in the most massive economic collapse in world history within 15 years. This has been a LONG TERM systematic decline. This is simply a classic example of rot. America's economic, social, and military strength are waning and waning fast. That is reality. The Pax Americana is about to hit its twighlight. This event will be similar in many ways to prior precedents. It will be very similar to the collapse of the Soviet Empire. During the 1970s, the Soviet Union was rotting at home. It peaked relatively fast. The Breznhev Era was simply an era of stagnation, a lot like contemporary America. It is just stagnating. This is always a sign of death not depression. The USSR itself was in decline. Politicians began to go on foreign adventures avoiding the more important fundamental problems at home. This only exacerbated the strain and bankrupted the system even faster. Afghanistan never defeated the Soviet military. The Soviets won the war but lost the peace. A long term low intensity conflict put too much strain on the Soviets, especially with regards to the Muslims in its armed forces that would not fight the Afghans. Diversity is our Strength! The Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan and the economic decline began to really accelerate. The satellites smelling weakness began to rebel. They broke away. The process of disintegration did not stop there. The Russians only made up roughly 50% of the population of the Soviet Union itself. Long pent up ethnic tensions exploded from underneath the thin veneer of communism. The Soviet Union itself broke up into over a dozen Republics. America will follow in the footsteps of the Soviet Union. It will decline at home, bankrupt itself for good abroad, its satellites will rebel, attain independence, and ultimately America's old race problem which has never been resolved will boil over. America itself will disintegrate. America will turn out a lot like Russia, the graveyard of a superpower with a downsized army and rusting navy armed with thousands of nuclear weapons of no use against its own little Chechnya's. A New World Order will emerge - a multipolar world where no one power dominates. There will be multiple poles of power. Major war will return to the world no longer restrained by American hegemony.

Former Member · February 2003

Yes Greenie, that is our challenge, not squandering our militaary personnel, furthering inflating our budget deficit, and undermining half a century of solid diplomatic ties in order to pander to the self-serving private war of the Bush camp against Iraq.

Put the same spotlight on this group of corrupt warmongers for there closets full of criminal complicities both recent and past and get our men and women back to actually defending our own land or hunting down Al Qaeda and Id be the first to hail your efforts.

What's going on now is nothing more than a corporate backed sham of the highest order.

Former Member · February 2003

Originally posted by Clandestine
get our men and women back to actually defending our own land or hunting down Al Qaeda and Id be the first to hail your efforts.

We're still hunting Al Queda and related terrrorist groups, Clandestine. Just not so visible about it.

The anti-war march

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