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The anti-war march
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
*pops head around door*
I was just wondering if any of you are going to the London march this saturday? If so, why? If not, why not?
Stop the war coalition - details of the march
10 million expected to march
*sits back and awaits a response*
I was just wondering if any of you are going to the London march this saturday? If so, why? If not, why not?
Stop the war coalition - details of the march
10 million expected to march
*sits back and awaits a response*
0
Comments
I doubt we're going to change Blair's mind but it is still important to send the message that most people are against this war, both here and elsewhere, and that if Blair goes ahead with this war Labour's days in power are numbered. Charles Kennedy the Lib Dems leader will be marching. Well done boy!
Particularly looking forward to the time when we march past Downing Street and the Houses of Parliament, as well as the rally at Hyde Park.
I know this sounds cheesy but this is history in the making. The time when your Prime Minister says we go to war (or do anything else) for greed, stupidity or selfishness and we follow like sheep are over. Anyone who does this will effectively give their job in office up.
So am I the only one from this site going? Hope not.
It's about standing up for your beliefs and trying to make a point. Perhaps you could join one of the many pro-war marches that are no doubt taking place in the US, pnj?
Yesterday's UK poll showed 9% in favour of war now, 49% if we get a 2nd UN Resolution. Interesting...
Don't fancy rubbing shoulders with Steelgate then?
Some points:
1) 10 million of 6.4 billion's pretty lame.
2) What an ideal opportunity to be a burglar!
3) Antarctic protests? Some people really are sad.
I'm not going. Because:
1) I think war is the lesser of the two evils.
2) Might not be right, but damned if the world cowers through inaction.
3) I'm in Cambridge shooting the Varsity Match.
I think Bush has lived a life where he went wherever the hell he wanted. And then on 911, he saw two of his playgrounds: NYC and Washington get hit. And I think on a human level, Bush is scared.
So an action you think is wrong is better than inaction (which surely itself is still an option that is 'doing something')
I don't get your thinking their.....
Quite reminiscent in fact of Jack Straws apparently twisted logic....
He suggested that we it would be fatal if we didn't match our words with actions...
Excuse me!
Whose words were these exactly, our govts, not the people trying to stop them! He is basically saying that the govt can act agressive and is then justified in going to war because it will look stupid if they have to back down!!!!
Thw man is a knobhead of extreme proportions!!!
But do you ever believe a demonstration is a good indication of the popular sentiment about an issue? Because you will never, ever will get everyone who supports certain issue to demonstrate. If media predictions are correct more than half million people will attend the London march alone. That will make it the biggest demonstration in British history. If you believe this is not an indication of the public mood, then I trust you disregarded every other demonstration ever staged in Britain, from Countryside folk to paedophile protesters as not significant.
In the same way that opinion polls use a few thousand people to assert voting tendencies, the size of a demonstration is a good indication of what the nation thinks. If only a few thousand were to show up on Saturday I would say the demo proves nothing. If 500,000 come, however, I think the message is crystal clear.
Why are they sad? Is caring and worrying about international affairs, even if it has no direct impact on you, sad? These people are making their voices heard because they believe going to war for unclear reasons will cause great suffering. But even if they were demonstrating for war I'd rather they voice their opinions than remain indifferent.
Rare that you get a march which is pro- a Govt position on anything. Not because people never agree with them but because there's not much point in marching just to say "Yeah, we agree Tony"
So what's your point? Mine is that if people don't feel strongly enough to get out and protest, then the anti-lobby's support isn't as strong as they think...
As a certain politician has said "victory has many fathers" or something like that.
I believe that debates and marches get hi-jacked by everyone, from anarchists to communists and everyone else in between. There are some people who just *like* to protest, and their presence demeans what a protest is. And no, I don't think that marching against war is an effective answer.
How many of these people who march don't vote? If you didn't vote in an election, you have no right to protest. You had the chance. We had the worst turn out in our elections for years: how can we complain when the government that we didn't really care about electing or not does something we disagree with!
Proves what? 500k people are anti war? Or 400k professional protestors are there, and 100k people are anti war? What nonsense.
Caring about international affairs is different to going on a march.
Not going to war will create suffering, just not here.
March for the rights of the Iraqi people.
March for the rights of self determination.
March for the freedom to live without the shadow of a tyrant.
March for the courage to do what is hard.
Just don't march 'cos that's what you think you should do. Or because you fancy a day out. Or because you're a socialist who will try and bring down the government by selling a two bit rag on the day.
In order to answer Toadborg. Ideally, we would not have to do anything. Saddam Hussein chose to piss the West off. He chose to not comply with 1441, he chose to evict weapons inspectors, and to hide and play peek a boo with inspectors. If we have to go to war, you think we will lose much? You think that the Republican Guard can inflict a shock defeat? Naah, not really.
But he has chosen this path. The threat of force has made Saddam comply with international regulation. And if Bush continues to act like a rabid warmongering stupid idiot and send troops to the Gulf, then Saddam will not underestimate him. He will assume he's capable. He will assume he's willing to go to war. And Saddam isn't stupid. He will comply, playing a game of brinkmanship as much as he can. Do you think that the global threat of war, with a POTUS and PM who strongly advise it, may possibly have influenced the way the inspections have gone?
It is in the UN's best interests to have the threat of force to back up their diplomatic requests. Bush & Blair provide that threat. There is no point protesting against war until there is one.
This could all be a PsyOp designed to force Saddam to comply. Think about it. Two nations standing together, against international favour, wanting to kick the Iraqi's door down. SpecForces playing hell with your country's infrastructure. U2 overflights. Recon.
And then diplomatic pressure.
Speak softly. But carry a big stick.
And I believe your generalisation is absolutely appalling. "400,000 professional demonstrators... socialists who want to bring down the government... people who fancy a day out..." Please! :rolleyes:
Have a look at the link you posted and see the kind of people who will be attending... many of those are pensioners who'd never been on a demo before. Have a look at the politicians and public figures attending... hardly the soap-shy Brighton brigade you seem to have in mind, are they?
I wonder if your attitude would have been quite the same if the demonstration was about something you agreed with...
Oh, and we're marching for the rights of the Iraqi people too. The right not to be bombed with 3,000 cruise missiles in the first 48 hours alone followed by more bombing by a warmongering fool acting with ulterior motives who couldn't give a toss about other tyrants elsewhere or the welfare of the Iraqi people.
wherever there are large numbers of people gathered has to be a target for someone. hope all goes well and none of you are hurt but... the world is filling up with nutters and hatred.
And read the BBC link I posted. See what some of the attendees said.
"I'm going for the same reason everyone else does: to meet hot chicks"
No, I don't think everyone's a professional protestor, but you don't know who is and isn't. SO it demeans the protest for everyone else, doesn't it?
Gives the impression people don't care about our lives being risked. Blair said it's more immoral to let Saddam keep killing his people than any civilian casualties from the war.
My argument is not that there is no such thing as protest.
My argument is simply that there are people who protest for the sake of protesting: and that these people no more represent the true voice of Britain than Al-Quaeda represent Muslims, or the IRA represent Northern Irish people.
End of story.
It's a damn shame past British (and American) governments couldn't give a fuck about those poor Iraqis- and furthermore provided Saddam with weapons so he could kill them more efficiently.
It's also a shame than this whiter-than-white, ethics-driven Blair is happy for the UK to continue selling weapons today to Indonesia, Saudi Arabia and other countries with appalling human rights records.
Would you care to explain that?
As it happens these people represent the feelings of the majority of people of Britain, who are either against war outright or against until definitive proof has been found and the UN gives full backing.
Unless you also want to close your eyes to the few million opinion polls released to date.
Then that works both ways doesn't it, if you don't know who are and who aren't these amazing 'professional protestors' you talk of then you can't say they demean protests.....
That is rubbish. Everyone has the right to protest, this govt represents people even if they didn't vote for them and that includes everyone that votes for other parties. This is national issue to do with the actions of our govt and has (sadly) very little to do with democracy or parliament.
If there was any chance of a parliamentary vote on whether we go to war then you might have a case.
If you can't be bothered to take out insurance; you can't be bothered to pay the premiums etc. do the insurance companies feel obligated to pay you?
Why should it be same for government? How much effort does it take to vote? If you don't vote, why should the government listen to you now?
Our democracy is frankly crap and it is no wonder that people don't want to vote when it so plainly makes no difference, the emphasis should be on politicians to get people to vote not on people to go and vote when there are no parties that represent them and no way they can make a difference..........
Give up people, you'd lost before you started.
Britain didnt go to Nam because of the marchers right?
So what's to say that because of us marching we won't go to Iraq?
I'm really looking forward to it and i agree that this is history in the making. i also think that people who say marching is stupid is the same as saying that voting for a certain party is pointless, it's peoples' opinions and our right.
well done to everyone standing up for their beliefs, I have respect for you all.
Lots of cool slogans and placards around: "Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity", "The Blair Bush Project- be very afraid", "Don't attack Chirac"
Oh, I had a Mecca Cola too. Better tasting than Coke as well.
Well it might not achieve a thing but then again it might. If anyone needed any convincing the great majority of the public is against the war. This was the biggest demonstration in the history of Great Britain (I would not agree with the 2 million claimed by the organisers but we definitively passed the million-mark) and I hope Tony thinks twice before engaging in a war without consulting parliament or listening to the public.
The demo went without incident, I saw or heard no racist or insulting behaviour and everybody was superb. No doubt the Sun and Telegraph will desperately look for negative stories to report; good luck to them...
I see that amongst the 600 cities and tens of millions of demonstrators New York got 250,000 out. Hats off to them! Although I'm sure some will call them traitors...
Anyway, sweet dreams everyone! I'm going to bed after a long but very fulfilling day!
so where are we now? lost. we need ... we need... a... we need a...
That it will ultimately be ignored is irrelevant, I'm sure you will all sleep well in your beds when the bombs start dropping, knowing that you did what you could.
Perhaps Aladdin you can tell me something. Everyone at that march today was protesting against war. No-one there wants it to happen.
So, finger in the air time I want you to give me an idea of rough numbers. What percentage were protesting against Iraq, for their non-compliance, and how many were protesting against the US/UK stance?
Judging by the banners, and the speakers I heard, I think I have a rough idea but I wonder what your felling was, on the ground.