If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. For Crisis Support (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨
Want to share your experience of using our Community?
We're collecting Community Case Studies which could be used on our website, on social media, shared with our volunteers, or shared with third parties who may be interested to hear how online communities help people.
Click here to fill out our anonymous form
We're collecting Community Case Studies which could be used on our website, on social media, shared with our volunteers, or shared with third parties who may be interested to hear how online communities help people.
Click here to fill out our anonymous form
Comments
That is a very valid point.
"The way that I have found the light in my life is through the expressive arts because I know that I will be accepted for the way I am." ~ Me
"I'm going to get strong again and see you soon. " ~ Anonymous
From my knowledge the software uses 3d imagery scans, so Im guessing maybe it has a way to tell if its a photo graph/ image compared to a real person
However if your point was they could use another real person face instead of own I agree
My other thought was if someone like myself feels more comfortable with a selfie than an ID, what if they happen to look a day over 26? Will we be able to see what age it thinks we are? Both reddit and discord verified me straight away as an adult through a selfie, but it didn’t tell me what age it thought I was. What if it just says adult are you going to be asking for ID to prove what age of adult that is?
Ik i keep editing this but another one: same could actually apply to teens who have just turned 13 as well. You don’t suddenly look an age. I have already raised concerns about young teens and ID, but if the only option they have available to them is a selfie and that selfie thinks they’re still 12 they’re pretty screwed. I had literally just turned 13 when I joined here. Who knows if i would have got through it
Yoti id software lets you upload image if i remember correctly, I haven't experienced yoti face scan technology though
great point. There's been countless case's where this has happened with both live photo requirements, and also photo upload requirements. There are a few proven case's of it, where the 3d imagery scans have failed and easily been bypassed with fake pictures of different people.
https://www.theverge.com/report/714402/uk-age-verification-bypass-death-stranding-reddit-discord
Hello im not here to argue but I decided to read the article myself (im only about 1/4 way through) and the article does say that most common method used to trick age verification software failed when it was used on YOTI, showing that YOTI has software to prevent at least one of the methods to trick age verification
Also the article was about using it to prove your a adult which i feel there is alot more recourse out there that allow you to use trick effectively as stated in article
I don`t think people here would be that stupid.
"The way that I have found the light in my life is through the expressive arts because I know that I will be accepted for the way I am." ~ Me
"I'm going to get strong again and see you soon. " ~ Anonymous
"The way that I have found the light in my life is through the expressive arts because I know that I will be accepted for the way I am." ~ Me
"I'm going to get strong again and see you soon. " ~ Anonymous
@BensonE That's actually the main reason I previously spoke in this thread about Yoti being awesome, with them having a great track record, and me even being comfortable enough sending my photo ID to them if needed. You are right that the bypass didn't work on Yoti, much to it's strength, and i would argue it's the most effective system currently available.
That being said, my concern is with the potential of emerging, more advanced spoofing. Without going into too much technical details, Yoti works by using a deep neural network in order to identify whether it's engaging with a real face or not, and shut down any spoofing attempts. This is a field of study that is rapidly evolving. Like many other technology fields, including Cyber Security, preventative methods that are effective now against it, like what yoti has, may not always be effective in future, as it bypass methods become more advanced, which is why i think it is a very valid concern to have about using others faces, real or fake ones, in future, which is why i see it as a perfectly valid concern.
And i think the Mix intend to use it to ensure that users are below 26, and are allowed within their age remit here, which is why i drew comparison to the age detection tools in question in the article.
@Dancer it's not a question of that, it's a simple statement of fact that it's a very valid concern that was raised, and i wanted to support it with evidence of how similar systems have in the past been bypassed using all sorts of different methods including using others face's, including deepfakes, and why it's valid to have such concerns about it. At no stage here did i describe anyone as "stupid", or ever imply user's were. There hasn't been any mention of stupidity raised in this conversation other than by yourself, which i find completely unnecessary.
https://www.mdpi.com/2504-2289/7/1/37
https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/brits-can-get-around-discords-age-verification-thanks-to-death-strandings-photo-mode-bypassing-the-measure-introduced-with-the-uks-online-safety-act-we-tried-it-and-it-works-thanks-kojima/
https://arxiv.org/abs/2202.10673
Glad we can agree that yoti is advance
This is a very good point that i hadn’t even considered @Dancer. From what I know yoti is one of the most secure ones out there, but I agree that some people might have concerns beyond the usual ones.
If someone is in that type of situation, which arguably might be what leads them to the mix in the first place, it is very valid for them to be concerned about it regardless of what the privacy policies say.
Thank you, and feel free to ask anything else on these changes.
The Mix Community Team
Q&A: Upcoming Changes to The Mix Community Boards
A: Yes. To continue using the Community, all users will need to complete age verification through Yoti. Accounts that do not complete the check will no longer be accessible.
Q: Is age verification only for new members?
A: No. All existing users of Community will also be required to complete the Yoti age verification process.
Q: Who handles the age verification process?
A: Age verification is handled by Yoti, a third-party provider.
Q: When will pre-moderation of the discussion boards start?
A: There is no exact date yet, but it is expected to come into effect within the next few weeks.
Q: What does pre-moderation mean for the boards?
A: All posts will be checked by moderators before appearing publicly. This applies to every post, including the Venting threads.
Q: Will this cause long delays before posts are approved?
A: The Mix has stated that they have hired additional staff and are onboarding more Boards Moderator Volunteers to minimise delays. While there may be busier periods, approving posts quickly is a stated priority.
Q: Will posts be checked in a similar way to Childline (where approval can take hours or days)?
A: we will aim to approve posts as quickly as possible and recognise that delays can affect the community experience. Human moderation is being prioritised for safeguarding reasons.
Q: Will the discussion boards be available overnight?
A: No. The boards will be closed between 10pm and 9am, and posting will be disabled during these hours.
Q: Why are overnight posts being disabled?
A: Overnight can be a time of increased crisis, and as the service is not staffed overnight, we want to avoid situations where users in crisis are supported only by peers without staff oversight. Users are instead directed to appropriate crisis services during these hours.
Q: Does the Online Safety Act require pre-moderation of posts?
A: No. The Online Safety Act does not explicitly mandate pre-moderation. However, Ofcom guidance states that organisations must take proportionate steps to safeguard children. The Mix has chosen full pre-moderation as a safety measure.
Q: Can we see the privacy policy before age verification begins?
A: Yes. The privacy policy can be found here
Q: Will AI or automated moderation be used, especially overnight?
A: At this stage, we have decided that human moderation of every post is essential for safeguarding. We will will review how pre-moderation works over time, but no automated system is planned currently.
"The way that I have found the light in my life is through the expressive arts because I know that I will be accepted for the way I am." ~ Me
"I'm going to get strong again and see you soon. " ~ Anonymous
I’m sorry but that is ridiculous. If you insist on full pre moderation, why not let people post and just approve it in the morning?
I have lots of issues with this, but the blanket restriction on posting overnight, at all, is my main one.
Id like to hope thats a miss communication and mix meant no over night approvals but I could be wrong
Literally everywhere else that does pre moderation approves nighttime posts in the morning.
@BensonE Ofcom are the government regulator responsible for enforcing the online safety act. It's there interpretation and judgement that determines what warrants a breach, what actions should be taken and what measures are acceptable. Often when enforcement actions are taken, they often release a report explaining how they think it violated the OSA.
I think my predictions were reasonably on the mark for this it seems, a few days back (especially section 12).
"The way that I have found the light in my life is through the expressive arts because I know that I will be accepted for the way I am." ~ Me
"I'm going to get strong again and see you soon. " ~ Anonymous
The law doesn’t explicitly require it, but it’s the option that is guaranteed, as is pre moderation.
Of course it would be denied as an arse covering.
"The way that I have found the light in my life is through the expressive arts because I know that I will be accepted for the way I am." ~ Me
"I'm going to get strong again and see you soon. " ~ Anonymous
I understand what's being said about preventing people in crisis posting, but preventing everyone from posting for quite a large chunk of the 24-hour period seems very extreme and feels the opposite of a welcoming environment, especially since most of the people posting at night aren't in crisis and simply want to chat and feel less lonely.
If the mix continues implementing changes like this I'll have to contemplate leaving like many others have already done, which I obviously don't want to do as this is the only truly supportive space I have.
It’s targeting a minority of people who do occasionally post in crisis and they don’t do this with bad intentions. People in crisis aren’t thinking clearly as it is
What happened to early intervention? If you look at the initial post about the merger, this was the goal. Like i said earlier in the thread, a post for a chat or for more general support can mean the difference between going into crisis and going to bed feeling calmer for some people.
This is what disturbs me the most about this, because rather than even investigating the possibility of using AI moderation or automated filtering, in order to minimise disruption to the community, the Mix aren't even considering it. Even just investigating it's potential use for in future would be clear proof there doing their best to mitigate as much of this as they can, but instead it's ruled out before ever being given a chance, or tested to see how effective it is at flagging posts, with only vague mentions of "future" reviews being offered. I just think they're not taking all options seriously at all, and failing to give any reasonable explanation for a lot.
Side by Side are a UK only based organisation too for example, and they worked around it by having automated screening of posts before they went live. Even from a corporate and legal stance, there's no genuine argument as to why a similar system can't be used here.
But say I was venting about something. If i need to vent about it, i probably need to vent about it now or else it’s gonna get bigger and bigger in my head. I’d absolutely rather it was approved first thing in the morning than not at all because it was posted at 10.01pm.