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An addition to Group Chat guidelines

JustVJustV Community Manager Posts: 5,305 Part of The Furniture
edited March 2020 in Community Announcements
We've made a tweak to the Group Chat guidelines that we've been meaning to make for a while. It's to do with expectations of Group Chat (Support Chat specifically), particularly for newcomers.

The change is underlined below:

Group chat is a group environment – I’m prepared for a bit of give and take and I’ll help to include everyone. I’ll make sure I consider what I say and how it may impact others, and I won't send too many messages at once. I understand I may not get the support I need all the time.

We're adding this because we know it can feel demotivating when you don't get support when you really need it, even if that's only for one night. But, as a lot of you guys know, that's part of using a group space and we want to reassure people of that right from when they start using the space for the first time.

This may also be relevant to some of our regulars, because nobody is immune to that frustration. :)
All behaviour is a need trying to be met.

Comments

  • SienaSiena Posts: 15,493 Skive's The Limit
    edited March 2020
    So Are you saying if we be like " no ones replying to me " and we get all needy. You're going to add points?  I think that is unfair as people have low confidence and think we are not worth it so seek reassurance. Or feel like no one cares is just a massive symptom of depression. And actually BPD symptom can be being "needy" or feeling ignored
    And if that's the case for this rule. Its not very understanding of mental health challenges which is sad. You should be reminded and hopefull it stops there but if you're saying add points just for being reminded it's unfair
    “And when they look at you, they won't see everything you've been through. They won't see the **** that turned to scars that began to fade with time. They won't see the heartbreaking things that shook up and changed your entire world. They won't know how many tears you cried or even what it was you were crying about. They won't see how strong you had to be because you had no other choice. What they will see though is how compassionate you are because you experienced pain. What they will see is how kind you are because you experienced how cruel the world is. What they will see is how good you are because you've seen how bad things or people can be. The difference between you and your experiences are who you choose to be, despite everything that could have turned you cold and unkind.You are the good the world needs and the best of us.” ~ Kirsten Corley
  • JustVJustV Community Manager Posts: 5,305 Part of The Furniture
    edited March 2020
    Not at all, @Shaunie. :)

    We understand that nobody is immune to this sort of frustration and that genuine support needs and vulnerabilities are behind those comments. We know it's particularly difficult for people who might have low self-esteem as well, for example. We're sensitive to those things and we always try to have reasonable expectations of people given their circumstances.

    This is just a general pointer and we won't be giving people points for it. In the same way that we wouldn't give someone points for not doing this:

    I’m prepared for a bit of give and take and I’ll help to include everyone.

    These guidelines are a bit more fluid and are mainly there so people know what to expect from chat. :)

    I guess the one time we might go down the points route with this is if it became so persistent that it derailed the session and became a genuine problem for others. That's very unlikely, though.
    All behaviour is a need trying to be met.
  • SienaSiena Posts: 15,493 Skive's The Limit
    I do actually think Natalie gets ignore a lott (not ignored cause i don't think would be intentional but don't know the right word). I wish i knew what to say everytime. And i know mods will say "sorry it looks like we missed your message" tbhhh i read that as it means they was just only paying attetion the their faviourates. ( i mightBe wrong) Its fine i guess everyone gets invested into someones personal story and get interested more than others for some reason. But idk what I'm saying anymore lol.
      
    & But, i haveNoticed it - Natalie doesn't even get actknowledged even when saying bye. Mods normally say bye to everyone weather they was supporting them or not. 
    I don't think it's Anything personal though natalie <3

     Cause Maybe weird suggestion - but maybe add a picture to your account, not that you get ignored if you have no picture- just may get more noticed If have a picture. Im pretty sure i actually read that somewhere on here, a long time ago that get more noticed I'd have own picture. You don't have a picture do you? 
    “And when they look at you, they won't see everything you've been through. They won't see the **** that turned to scars that began to fade with time. They won't see the heartbreaking things that shook up and changed your entire world. They won't know how many tears you cried or even what it was you were crying about. They won't see how strong you had to be because you had no other choice. What they will see though is how compassionate you are because you experienced pain. What they will see is how kind you are because you experienced how cruel the world is. What they will see is how good you are because you've seen how bad things or people can be. The difference between you and your experiences are who you choose to be, despite everything that could have turned you cold and unkind.You are the good the world needs and the best of us.” ~ Kirsten Corley
  • Past UserPast User Posts: 0 Just got here
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • SienaSiena Posts: 15,493 Skive's The Limit
    edited March 2020
    Do you mean I'm one @Taz ? If so i think if you feel this strongly about it - you should tell the person direct to aviod feeling like youre talking about us and to get the best out of the chat. If mean I'm one you're saying then ill keep in mind. But i mean if have a problem with chat. Theres no harm telling that person directly if word nicely its more poliet then indirectly saying it. 

    we was all new comers at some point. It can feel like a vibe of tbe regulars but i really like that as feel know everyone more and new people are always welcome. And there is mo rule on how often we can come. This site is the only place for support for some. Cause i know im too old for some support places other people get like childline and kooth and all those ones that other people use. Or like beat and elefriends that other use cause im banned from them lol. And this is thenonly support i use online and literally my whole support other then my counsellor i only speak to once a week for 50 mins. My family dont even supoort me. So i think need some understanding the way people seek support esp if only support and Even the only people speak to, to other then family. It can feel super lonely

    and ihave never see anyone who doesnt appreciate a users response even if they was wanting attention from a mod
    Post edited by Siena on
    “And when they look at you, they won't see everything you've been through. They won't see the **** that turned to scars that began to fade with time. They won't see the heartbreaking things that shook up and changed your entire world. They won't know how many tears you cried or even what it was you were crying about. They won't see how strong you had to be because you had no other choice. What they will see though is how compassionate you are because you experienced pain. What they will see is how kind you are because you experienced how cruel the world is. What they will see is how good you are because you've seen how bad things or people can be. The difference between you and your experiences are who you choose to be, despite everything that could have turned you cold and unkind.You are the good the world needs and the best of us.” ~ Kirsten Corley
  • Past UserPast User Posts: 0 Just got here
    edited March 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • SienaSiena Posts: 15,493 Skive's The Limit
    edited March 2020
    I get that and appercate that. ThankYou for explaining
     But it is a bit annoying when you see the same mods and users speaking to each other none stop each sessions. Like Theyre each other's favs and while i Dont only seek mods support it does make you feel left out and frustated. Cause they never have to seek attention they just get it
    “And when they look at you, they won't see everything you've been through. They won't see the **** that turned to scars that began to fade with time. They won't see the heartbreaking things that shook up and changed your entire world. They won't know how many tears you cried or even what it was you were crying about. They won't see how strong you had to be because you had no other choice. What they will see though is how compassionate you are because you experienced pain. What they will see is how kind you are because you experienced how cruel the world is. What they will see is how good you are because you've seen how bad things or people can be. The difference between you and your experiences are who you choose to be, despite everything that could have turned you cold and unkind.You are the good the world needs and the best of us.” ~ Kirsten Corley
  • Past UserPast User Posts: 0 Just got here
    edited March 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • GreenTeaGreenTea Posts: 12,938 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    That how mods on another forum run chat. They don't get Involved with supporting individuals unless it's a welfare worry. They tend to ask questions to encourage others to support the user, like you put above Taz.

    I use to use chat regularly until I got banned for getting into arguments and I don't know if I'm allowed to say I'm banned, but I'm going to because what I'm going to say matters. When I used chat a couple years ago, I always felt ignored and felt like everyone had their little clicks with certain users and others were just ignored. Mods would be involved with the popular clicks and others would just be left out. Didn't matter how many times you copy and pasted the comment, it was just invisible to others. Yes I did kick off about it because I got fed up of trying to reach out for support and someone to talk to, and not getting that. I'd argue with users who were getting attention because I wanted them to realise that there's others who need it too. Unfortunately my behaviour got me banned and it makes me sad that people are behaving the way I use to.
    Everyone should get an equal opportunity for support, no problem is to big or small.  I feel mods need to take a backseat and ask questions to the group as a whole to direct support on others, instead of being involved in personal support to people they get on with. I think people need to understand the mods are there to keep the chat safe and not to be begged for attention.
    The chat can be a nice place and I do miss it but that's my own fault and I'm Facing the consequences of my actions and I hope others realise that the last thing you want is to lose the chat completely because it's hard not having that option for support. 

    So please please work together so you can all keep the chat a safe place. If you see someone not being acknowledged, say something. If you don't know what to say then things like "I'm sorry you are having a difficult time right now" or " I hope you are ok". It can make all the difference to people in the chat who may feel ignored.
    You have to give support as well as take support for chats to work well!
  • SienaSiena Posts: 15,493 Skive's The Limit
    edited March 2020
    I don't think anyone is doing why you got banned.  Cause no one get into arguments with the people who get more attention. Just seek Attention ( just wanted to say so theDifference so don't feel it's personal why you got banned)
    “And when they look at you, they won't see everything you've been through. They won't see the **** that turned to scars that began to fade with time. They won't see the heartbreaking things that shook up and changed your entire world. They won't know how many tears you cried or even what it was you were crying about. They won't see how strong you had to be because you had no other choice. What they will see though is how compassionate you are because you experienced pain. What they will see is how kind you are because you experienced how cruel the world is. What they will see is how good you are because you've seen how bad things or people can be. The difference between you and your experiences are who you choose to be, despite everything that could have turned you cold and unkind.You are the good the world needs and the best of us.” ~ Kirsten Corley
  • GreenTeaGreenTea Posts: 12,938 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    I think you've completely missed my point of the post..
  • SienaSiena Posts: 15,493 Skive's The Limit
    Yeah i get what you're saying. Just wanted to help.  Cause you said you're banned for what people do. That would feel shit if felt that but don't think the Case
    “And when they look at you, they won't see everything you've been through. They won't see the **** that turned to scars that began to fade with time. They won't see the heartbreaking things that shook up and changed your entire world. They won't know how many tears you cried or even what it was you were crying about. They won't see how strong you had to be because you had no other choice. What they will see though is how compassionate you are because you experienced pain. What they will see is how kind you are because you experienced how cruel the world is. What they will see is how good you are because you've seen how bad things or people can be. The difference between you and your experiences are who you choose to be, despite everything that could have turned you cold and unkind.You are the good the world needs and the best of us.” ~ Kirsten Corley
  • GreenTeaGreenTea Posts: 12,938 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    It is kinda the case though.. reading that others kick off and are still there is a bit like "oh" but it's whatever. 
  • SienaSiena Posts: 15,493 Skive's The Limit
    edited March 2020
    Na. I've never seen anyone arguing with users for getting more attention, if that's of any help. I know people seek attention and say they feel ignored. But people to reassure them that they're not invisable. doesn't Turn into arguement. 
    “And when they look at you, they won't see everything you've been through. They won't see the **** that turned to scars that began to fade with time. They won't see the heartbreaking things that shook up and changed your entire world. They won't know how many tears you cried or even what it was you were crying about. They won't see how strong you had to be because you had no other choice. What they will see though is how compassionate you are because you experienced pain. What they will see is how kind you are because you experienced how cruel the world is. What they will see is how good you are because you've seen how bad things or people can be. The difference between you and your experiences are who you choose to be, despite everything that could have turned you cold and unkind.You are the good the world needs and the best of us.” ~ Kirsten Corley
  • Past UserPast User Posts: 0 Just got here
    edited March 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • independent_independent_ Community Champion Posts: 8,614 Legendary Poster
    I don’t normally posts on threads like this but I agree with many posters on here that there are definitely some people (not always the same people) who seem to get all the support in chat and don’t support others in return.

    I’m not going to name names because that’s not fair, and I should also add that I don’t use chat often anymore so many of the users I’m thinking of may have long since stopped doing this or stopped using chat entirely, but I definitely think it’s relevant to mention.

    When I do use chat nowadays especially SC I try to speak to everyone and make the people at the back feel heard (I have very low self-esteem and I know how horrible it feels to reach out for support and not be heard). I haven’t read the guidelines for a while in full but maybe there should be a point in there about the importance of trying to support others (at least sometimes, I know it’s not always possible when you’re feeling shit mentally) as well as getting support for yourself? I don’t know about others but I find helping and supporting others is rewarding and makes me feel like I’m doing something good.
    “Sometimes the people around you won’t understand your journey. They don’t need to, it’s not for them.”
  • Salix_alba_2019Salix_alba_2019 Deactivated Posts: 1,646 Extreme Poster
    I've read this thread and the things mentioned have been valuable, can relate to some of the things being said. Admittedly, I haven't offered as much support as I used to and I would like to work on that. I also wanted to mention the topic of burning out, it's happens and it's it makes it challenging to provide words of wisdom. I personally can't fake a conversation. When I speak I mean it from the heart and I've never been able to supply empty words. I genuinely can't. 

    As for the "little circle" or "clique" , some of us have been a part of the community for a long time and have even gone on the help out the mix behind the scenes and or gotten to know each other in person because of this, it's only natural to build a rapport and trust with people over time but I can also understand how isolating it can feel and I do apologise if I personally had made anyone feel that way as it was completely unintentional. 

    On the topic of giving support, sometimes it comes down to 1) People's ability to confidently provide support 2)this is often based on the level of personal experiences and how able people are able to give support when dealing with others in the same boat. When it comes to heavy topics I'm really out of my depth, I know to take a back seat because I don't know how to help despite really wanting to. Have you ever tried offering support to someone who's seemingly inconsolable? It's hard knowing what to say help because you feel like you can't help,not because you don't want to. 


    When the conversations become slightly derailed it's a way of lifting the mood a bit and a way of getting others to perhaps join in so that at least something made them smile or laugh for that time being, even if they felt they weren't able to start a conversation that day.

    I like that chat offers the opportunity to use chat on an unlimited basis, that being said it worries me that it might be depended on in ways that might not be healthy. I understand that chat offers social time and a place to be heard but it's also important to understand that other people come into the space to be heard to and it can be hard when that chance isn't given for X reasons.  I've noticed that it can create a cycle of  seeking behaviors to be heard. 

    The "I understand that I might not get the support I need all the time" is great, I know it's not nice to hear but it's important to not enable dependant behaviours in the form of consecutively receiving 1-2-1 from mods, boundaries are super important and great in the long term. 
  • JellyelephantJellyelephant Posts: 1,874 Extreme Poster
    I have a few things I want to say which are kinda similar to others but I want to add my opinion hopefully that’s ok.

    1) reading this thread there feels like a lot of negativity to people who use chat all the time. As someone who is in chat most times it has made me feel guilty and that I’ve done something wrong. Me and others have been on the mix for years so of course we will have made friendships etc that’s always going to happen. 

    2) I try and support others when I can, however there is a few reasons why I don’t 
    - if I am in a bad place I am not always able to offer support 
    - if I don’t feel like I can offer anything that would be remotely helpful 
    - I don’t like to respond to “guilt trips” so I don’t tend to respond to statement about everyone ignores me nobody cares etc... this is because it can be difficult as others then feel they have to respond to this to show they care and then this encourages the person and others to say these things when they want someone to respond. So then it kind of becomes a battle for attention. Which is difficult

    3) I do agree with this part of the guideline being added. I see some people getting very upset when they don’t get support every single chat. Also sometimes I see people saying they’re being ignored when I have seen someone having a chat with them earlier. As part of give and take we all need to know that we can’t have support alllllll of chat because that’s how others get a chance by taking it in turns kinda 

    also as a general kinda point: ongoing issues are kinda hard to give much support on (for me anyway) because there’s only so much things you can say on a subject.. and yeh 

    I don’t think I’ve worded this very well tbh and I know that I am guilty of “attention seeking” at times but I just wanted to make these points as I feel like most of the people on this thread are aimed at me lol 
    The sun will rise and we will try again 
  • SienaSiena Posts: 15,493 Skive's The Limit
    edited March 2020
    I feel like im the only attention seeking selfish person. So i am genuirly really sorry and im gunna be quiet in support from now on in terms of seeking support or just not come if i cant give support. So chat can be better place. <3. Really sorry
    “And when they look at you, they won't see everything you've been through. They won't see the **** that turned to scars that began to fade with time. They won't see the heartbreaking things that shook up and changed your entire world. They won't know how many tears you cried or even what it was you were crying about. They won't see how strong you had to be because you had no other choice. What they will see though is how compassionate you are because you experienced pain. What they will see is how kind you are because you experienced how cruel the world is. What they will see is how good you are because you've seen how bad things or people can be. The difference between you and your experiences are who you choose to be, despite everything that could have turned you cold and unkind.You are the good the world needs and the best of us.” ~ Kirsten Corley
  • Salix_alba_2019Salix_alba_2019 Deactivated Posts: 1,646 Extreme Poster
    edited March 2020
    @Jellyelephant in all honesty reading this thread made me feel kind of sad too but I didn't want to say it. I felt like some parts were aimed at me too 😅


    I was trying to say that sometimes the chat environment can create a cycle of seeking behaviors in anyone but I didn't word it very well. (I wanted to re edit my badly written post but laziness took over lol) 

    @Shaunie you're doing the best you can with the skills that you currently have. I can empathize as somone with BPD but it's great that we(myself included) can all take away things from this thread. I think you're fantastic at giving support, just like how you've done it on the boards on multiple occasions. You've got a natural approach when offering support and I wanted to point out, show us how it's done because my support giving it crap lol. Your ability to reflect and progress mindfully is something that is admirable. Don't let this deter you from moving forward ❤️



    Post edited by Salix_alba_2019 on
  • LaineLaine Deactivated Posts: 2,762 Boards Guru
    The way I see it is that we're all worthy of support x

    I try my best during SC's to talk to someone who I don't see getting support, but it can be hard as with some things I don't know what to say. I think at least offering "that sounds really difficult!" Is better than nothing. I also try to encourage quieter users "hey user1 you okay there?" 

    A lot of mods usually will encourage peer support with "that sounds tricky, does anyone have any advice on that" 
    Which I think can be quite good.

    I think it's good that people will not receive points however, as it can't be helped I know what it feels like when you feel like you're being ignored or genuinely are it can be ready hurtful.

    I don't see a problem with repeating a message as chat can be very hard to keep up with I sometimes do lose messages in the sea of other messages.
     
    @Shaunie I hope you're okay 💕 we are all worthy of support and it's important to me that everyone can get the support they want from this space.  There's no need to reduce amount of support needed theres plenty to go around x
    I think we should just be mindful of the space, and try to help each other the best we can.

     I think it's naturally easier when someone is a regular to support them because you know quite a bit about their situation. 
    Some people also are not in the right space to give, don't know what to say or are in a crisis of their own.

     I think the most important thing we can take with SC is that everyone deserves some support. Sometimes things get missed it's hard but remain calm and repeat yourself nobody is being ignored on purpose x

    Let's stick together and make sure everyone can get something from the space :)

    🌈Positive thoughts🌈

    "This is my family. I found it, all on my own.
    It's little, and Broken, but still good. Yeah. Still good." ~ Stitch

    "Lately, I've been struggling with all the simple things in my life" ~ Cian Ducrot

    "I don't know if it's because my heart hurts or I'm insecure" ~ Juice Wrld
  • JustVJustV Community Manager Posts: 5,305 Part of The Furniture
    edited March 2020
    Edit: sorry this is a long post! Trying to cover everything and I've bolded up the highlights.

    Staff have been keenly following this conversation, interested in what y'all think. :)

    This is a really important conversation to have. Not necessarily with mods, but as a Community it's interesting and quite refreshing to see you guys talking about what you want from Group Chat, what you're not getting, and being honest about how you feel in that space. It's also awesome that this stayed so civil and that you're all able to have a difficult conversation like this in a constructive way.

    Firstly, I'd echo @Laine above and say you're all deserving of support and you have a right to ask for it when you need it. This new guideline isn't an attempt to restrict the support you get or how much you say in Group Chat. I'm not sure if that was well communicated so thought I'd highlight it.

    The key thing, as you guys have said, is that when you don't get the response you're after, it's understood that it's not personal (although we get that sometimes it's difficult to see that when you're in a certain mindset, and that's okay). It's important to choose what's best for you and the group when you're not feeling heard. That might be to pick another time to share or come back tomorrow, or it might be to ask again because you think it got missed before.

    If you've been sharing for a while, consider whether it would be helpful for someone else if you switched to listening for a bit and helped them get what they need. If not many people are sharing then you might be able to comfortably get support for a bit longer, and that's okay as well.

    And as @Jellyelephant touched on: it's okay not to support people. This is something we wanna be really clear about because nobody should feel they have to support others if they're just not in the right headspace for it, for whatever reason. Not everyone has to support others, but enough people need to for chat to function properly. Doing what you can, when you can, will be enough. :)

    A mod's perspective...

    In Group Chat, our role is designed to only have a little bit of support giving. Mainly, we try to focus on moderation and facilitation. That just means making it as easy and as safe as possible for you to support each other in that space. Where we can, we try to explain that mods aren't there to give support 1-2-1 and that we have specific 1-2-1 channels if you need that - @Taz mentioned this too.

    It's also worth noting that it's okay if we have slow chats - that's inevitable in some ways and we don't blame anyone for the odd difficult one where it feels harder to get support. Mods do what they can in these situations (e.g. opening things up to the group more) but that doesn't always work and there's probably more we could do in those situations.

    In terms of what moderators can do to help... reading through these posts, it feels like it might be useful if mods stepped back a little from providing support, perhaps focusing only on those conversations that need guidance and moderation, and some fun stuff inbetween. Maybe that could encourage everyone to work together a bit more and help chat feel more supportive. Is that a fair takeaway for us?

    Please say no if that's a misread, and this is just in addition to the amazing points you've all been making and reflecting on between you as chat members. It feels like you've all been taking things from each other in this discussion regardless of mod input and that's brill. :)
    All behaviour is a need trying to be met.
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