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Do you respect the armed forces?

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Neddy wrote: »
    and like it or not the US & the UK are inextricably linked

    i like it not, and dont think it has to be that way
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i like it not, and dont think it has to be that way

    I can see both sides, I don't like that we get dragged into every little fight the US get themselves involved in, but at the same time if it ever kicked off on a major scale I would want the USA on my side and not fighting me, wouldn't you?!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Neddy wrote: »
    ...but at the same time if it ever kicked off on a major scale I would want the USA on my side and not fighting me, wouldn't you?!

    I'd want none to fight, actually.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Neddy wrote: »
    there is that, but we went in after they had attacked the US and like it or not the US & the UK are inextricably linked and the "beacons" of western civilization if you like.....

    This can be resisted you know.
    Neddy wrote:
    but at the same time if it ever kicked off on a major scale I would want the USA on my side and not fighting me, wouldn't you?!

    Not really. They'd more than likely throw us in as cannon-fodder then spend the next 50 years telling us they "saved our asses again".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I go out of my way to thank servicemen (including police and firefighters) for their service.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Neddy wrote: »
    I respect anyone who risks their life every day for their country and certainly think they should be paid more (as should firefighters and nurses) but they do sign up through choice, knowing the risks, which is why it makes me cringe a little bit whenever i see people coming out after a soldier has died saying "he never should have been there" and having a go at the politicians.

    Everyone has choices and the soldiers choose to go to war when they sign up....

    Don't believe the shite about nurses being low paid. They do very well for themselves, thank you very much.

    But that's by the by.

    I have a great deal of respect for people who put their lives on the line to defend other people, as happens when peacekeepers go into countries to defend the innocent people caught up in civil war. It's the same with firemen and policemen who put themselves on the line for others, but I don't think either of them face the same risks that our armed forces do. I'm not sure I could do it, although I would like to think I could if I had to, I'm not convinced.

    As for soldiers knowing the risks when they sign up, that's definitely true. It is something that you live with when you're sent off to active service, knowing that the risk of death and serious injury is there- even more importantly, it's something that your spouse and kids live with too. But I don't think that means we shouldn't be angry when young kids are sent off to Afghanistan or Iraq to die just so that the politicians and businessmen can make more money.

    I'm fucking angry about all these young men and women packed off to die by Blair, just so the gurning toothy cunt can swan around the Middle East pretending he's some sort of fucking peace envoy. If Blair believed in the war that strongly he should have been on the front line with an AK47 in his hand, not sending other people's kids and parents off to die in a pointless war.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Don't believe the shite about nurses being low paid. They do very well for themselves, thank you very much.

    So, how much do they get then? They don't start off on that high of a salary. Given the shit they get from patients and the risks of HIV, etc, thye should be highly paid.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Melian wrote: »
    So, how much do they get then? They don't start off on that high of a salary. Given the shit they get from patients and the risks of HIV, etc, thye should be highly paid.

    Could you not argue that they signed up for that, in the same way people in the army sign up to danger as well?

    Plus I think its £20k+ starting for a nurse?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I got the answer to that in my UKC jobs email this morning...

    Job Entry level salary After 5 years (expected)

    Sources: NUT, FBU, RCN, AFPRB, Winsor Review

    Firefighter £21,157 £28,199

    Police officer £23,259 £31,032

    Nurse £21,176 £25,472

    Teacher £21,588 £32,200
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Don't believe the shite about nurses being low paid. They do very well for themselves, thank you very much.

    what starting at 16k for a graduate nurse after spending 3-4 years training and you think thats ok? For the amount of responsibility, the amount of training, the amount of knowledge and the shitty unsociable hours? Youre kidding arent you
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Melian wrote: »
    So, how much do they get then? They don't start off on that high of a salary. Given the shit they get from patients and the risks of HIV, etc, thye should be highly paid.

    A bog standard nurse will earn between £21,100 and £27,500 (band five on Agenda for Change), a specialist nurse can earn up to £34,200 (band six) and a Modern Matron can earn up to £46,600 (band 8a). Figures taken from here. I'm assuming that the mean pay band figures don't take into account the uplift for unsocial hours working under Agenda for Change.

    Those are good wages.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru

    That webpage quotes the annual tax free allowance as being £4,615, so the data on that site is around 4-6 years old?

    Edit: Also a lot of the rest of the site doesn't work.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru

    Those figures are from January 2004, before Agenda for Change, and as such are over seven years out of date.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sorry, i didnt check properly but i still think its pretty low considering the responsibility, the workload, the training, and everything else ive already mentioned
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It depends on your perspective, the wages compare very favourably with wages paid to firefighters, police officers and active servicemen.

    Despite the gobshite spewing from Cameron's mouth, public sector workers get paid less and in exchange they (in theory) get better perks and better job security. Things are going to change with Cameron cutting perks, jobs AND wages, but for now you'd have to say NHS staff are paid reasonably well for what they do.

    I don't think the thick end of fifty grand for a Modern Matron is a wage to be sniffed at, although I agree that Modern Matrons work damn hard for their money.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and most of them will have grafted hard for over 20 years to get there too, if they ever do, so i still dont think it reflects what they do adequately
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and most of them will have grafted hard for over 20 years to get there too, if they ever do, so i still dont think it reflects what they do adequately

    Do you agree with my theory that tube train drivers on automated lines should get paid less then?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i have no opinion on tube train drivers
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So people sitting on their arse all day on a train should get paid the same as hard grafting ward matrons then?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i have no idea what they get paid, or what they do, so at this point in time, i neither agree nor disagree. I dont know what level of knowledge they need, what hours they do or what their responsibility is, whether its skilled or unskilled.
    Lots of people sit down all day for their job and its not really relevant to how much they should or do get paid.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A London tube driver gets about £37,000 for a 35-hour week, but within that there is a lot of unsocial hours. The first diagrams start at about 4am and the last diagrams end at about 1.30am. They're probably paid about right, given the level of knowledge and skills that they require. It's certainly far more than sitting in a chair pushing buttons all day.

    I don't think that NHS staff are underpaid at all, especially not doctors and nurses. The ones with the knowledge and skills are paid very well indeed and even entry-level nursing staff are paid reasonably well compared to other graduate level vacancies. They get more than teachers, for a start. I don't think they're overpaid either (well, some GPs are...) but they're sure as hell not underpaid.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    So people sitting on their arse all day on a train should get paid the same as hard grafting ward matrons then?

    But they're not just "sat on their arse all day on a train".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Swanning around in Canada skiing on a subsidised holiday at the taxpayers expense my pay as a young subaltern was very good.

    Working sixteen hour days whilst dodging the bullets fired by various Balkan lunatics the pay didn't seem quiet so generous.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Swanning around in Canada skiing on a subsidised holiday at the taxpayers expense my pay as a young subaltern was very good.

    Working sixteen hour days whilst dodging the bullets fired by various Balkan lunatics the pay didn't seem quiet so generous.

    My brother felt the same when he was shark fishing on Ascension Island.......
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