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Do you respect the armed forces?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
And what they do and/or their purpose? Why/why not? + What's your opinion on the war in Afghanistan? I suspect most do, but I know there's always a significant amount who don't for whatever reason.

Personally, I've always admired the armed forces. In fact, the jobs I always wanted to since I was young were military related, I either wanted to be in the Royal Artillery in the Army or be a Royal Navy pilot. lol. But [I think] I'm medically DQ'd from joining any of the forces. I've always respected they have a tough job with relatively little pay, I feel the same way about Britain's emergency services (Fire Service, Ambulance Service and yes, the Police). As for the war in Afghanistan, if I'm honest though, I do doubt the motives from a political point of view but I would never hate the military for it.

Opinions?
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I respect the fact they put their lives on the line to protect us.

    I dont always agree with the reasons they go to war, but then I suspect a lot of soliders dont agree with a war they are fighting.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Calvin wrote: »
    I respect the fact they put their lives on the line to protect us.

    I dont always agree with the reasons they go to war, but then I suspect a lot of soliders dont agree with a war they are fighting.

    There is very much an ethos of think for yourself, but where you ultimately have to do what is asked of you.

    I think admiration for any of the armed forces, and even police/fire/ambulance etc is always very much appreciated. However I do find it a little odd that some policemen get paid a fair wodge more after training than other people do, who are in more inherant danger.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I respect the choices members of the armed forces have made to serve their country, however I they are guilty of doublethink in the case of carrying out orders they consider against their ethical beliefs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Calvin wrote: »
    I respect the fact they put their lives on the line to protect us.

    Whereas I'd have to agree to that in principle, out in Afganistan, Iraq etc they're not actually fighting to protect us.

    Protecting us is what the guys did during both world wars. I'll be the first to admit that the guys fighting the taliban etc have more balls than I ever will but I don't see that alone as being reason to respect them, although that's not to say I disrespect them.

    I respect them in the way I respect the emergency services I suppose. A lot of soldiers I've met have a superiority complex, looking down on us with pity as "poor civvies". That attitude pisses me off and is not justified or balanced by the fact if we were invaded they would protect us.

    Probably easier to say I support the forces rather than respect them.

    There's another angle to this in the way some Brits are hell-bent on being Americanised. Over there the forces are far more revered but it doesn't quite gel over here as we're generally not as patriotic as them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've never understood all this "Armed Forces are heroes", etc. Yet, there's no (or little) recognition of the work that the police, nurses, etc. do.

    I have a relative who is in the Navy. His attitude is so "oh the poor soldiers". I remember him having a right go at students and how they don't work hard and how the armed forces do. Clearly, he's forgetting that it was a midwife who was once a student who delivered his 3 children and a doctor / A&E staff who cared his youngest after she broke her thigh bone.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru

    Probably easier to say I support the forces rather than respect them.

    Agree with this :yes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not especially.
    I dont hate them or anything, but going to war for a wage, or signing up to possibly kill people isnt particularly heroic in my opinion.
    Sometimes I think they do a good job, and I think theyre needed, along with many many other professions, but I dont get the "our boys" thing, or think theyre all heroes
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not especially.
    I dont hate them or anything, but going to war for a wage, or signing up to possibly kill people isnt particularly heroic in my opinion.
    Sometimes I think they do a good job, and I think theyre needed, along with many many other professions, but I dont get the "our boys" thing, or think theyre all heroes
    This times a zillion.

    I refuse to ever give any money to Help for Heroes. Ever. Not because I don't think it's brave, not because I don't think the job is dangerous, but because that is precisely what you've signed up for. I don't think they deserve respect just because of what they do - people deserve respect for their individual actions, not the job they have chosen - and yeah, it's sad when they get hurt, but that is a risk of the job. Maybe there should be more provision for veterans, but I think there are much better charitable organisations for me to give my money to which are nothing to do with people getting hurt in a job where it's almost part of the sodding job description.

    /rant.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This times a zillion.

    I refuse to ever give any money to Help for Heroes. Ever. Not because I don't think it's brave, not because I don't think the job is dangerous, but because that is precisely what you've signed up for. I don't think they deserve respect just because of what they do - people deserve respect for their individual actions, not the job they have chosen - and yeah, it's sad when they get hurt, but that is a risk of the job. Maybe there should be more provision for veterans, but I think there are much better charitable organisations for me to give my money to which are nothing to do with people getting hurt in a job where it's almost part of the sodding job description.

    /rant.

    I agree with you a fair whack here, the projects that help for heroes fund should not be given by a charity. Yes there is a very inherent danger in the job, but much like other public sector workers who have accidents or mishaps, I'm sure soldiers don't intend or want to get injured. The provision for care should be better from the government, I'm not saying that to be justifying spending more tax payers money, what I am saying is that whilst people do not sign up to die or be seriously injured, they do sign up knowing there is a chance it might happen, but that they will also be taken care of if it did. Otherwise apart from the nutters who might sign up to kill people, we wouldnt have an army.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Coincidentally all I wish and hope for from any person is the same level of respect and consideration that they would afford anybody else.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I respect soldiers as much as I respect anybody, no more and no less. I can't abide the whole "our heroes" bollocks you get from The Sun, and I have issues with Help for Heroes because of the way they promote themselves. The whole ethos of that charity gets up my nose, and I speak as someone who has donated to SSAFA before.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    The provision for care should be better from the government.

    What is the provision for care like?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    I agree with you a fair whack here, the projects that help for heroes fund should not be given by a charity. Yes there is a very inherent danger in the job, but much like other public sector workers who have accidents or mishaps, I'm sure soldiers don't intend or want to get injured. The provision for care should be better from the government, I'm not saying that to be justifying spending more tax payers money, what I am saying is that whilst people do not sign up to die or be seriously injured, they do sign up knowing there is a chance it might happen, but that they will also be taken care of if it did. Otherwise apart from the nutters who might sign up to kill people, we wouldnt have an army.

    This.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Melian wrote: »
    What is the provision for care like?

    Well it isnt all that bad, but I would say it is a little shit by default if help for heroes raises £70m+ to plug the gap.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    However I do find it a little odd that some policemen get paid a fair wodge more after training than other people do, who are in more inherant danger.

    My brother who was in the RAF got paid a little less than me. However his housing, food, clothing were all HEAVILY subsidised, ie he paid £1 a day for his meals and a little more than that for his room. When he was abroad he didn't pay anything and got paid extra.

    Yes, the wages aren't great, but if his new Audi TT (paid for mostly in cash) was anything to go by he was never short. Perversely now he's in the police working longer hours, he's skint.


    As for the Do I respect the Armed forces, I have a great deal of respect for people in any profession where they either help the rest of us or put their lives in danger whilst doing it, so soldiers, the police (obviously :P), doctors, nurses, teachers e.t.c.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    However I do find it a little odd that some policemen get paid a fair wodge more after training than other people do, who are in more inherant danger.
    Adding to what Whowhere said, military pay also depends on rank and other variables. A young and new Private/Gunner/Sapper/etc isn't on much, in fact, s|he's on little more than minimum wage, but the longer they stay in the service and the further up the rank scales they go. Non-Commissioned Officers, Warrant Officers and especially Commissioned Officers don't do too badly for themselves:

    http://www.armedforces.co.uk/armypayscales.htm

    On the whole "heroes" things, I do actually kind of agree it's a bit wrong they get way extra recognition and respect than the emergency services and I've never understood people, which tends to be Americans, that think if you question the troops, you must be some high hippie, communist, terrorist sympathiser, but it's never soldiers who actually react this way, it tends to be civilians who happen to have a great deal of respect for the armed forces. Like for example, a guy in my form in secondary school (my old best friend, I might add) made a group on Facebook in '09 about how British soldiers are murderers, and loads of these "armchair commandos" joined and also made a group to counter against it, saying that his group should be removed from FB.. but ironically, also saying how the armed forces fight for his freedom of speech, oh and an amusing man who was about 40 was calling him out to meet with him and have a fight with him, he was just 16 at the time.

    I think people need to chill a bit and realise that freedom of speech actually covers all speech.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I feel indifferent to them.

    A person is a person I guess...
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    Not in the same country but I'll say that I don't have more or less respect for the average soldier (that I don't know personally) than for the average non-soldier.
    However I believe that signing up for something where you might be forced to do something that's contrary to your beliefs with no legal way to get out of it if it happens is essentially making yourself a bit more of a tool* and a bit less of a person. Of course this doesn't only go for soldiers.

    *In the literal sense, not the insult
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have more respect for anyone, in any job, who puts their life on the line doing something which I would never want to do - fire, police and armed forces immediately spring to mind.

    The fact that people cannot see that in our armed forces just underlines, for me, that they take their freedoms and lifestyle for granted. There is a cost to it all, and they are the ones whom pay the price (whether you agree with the reasons or not). It saddens me that people cannot see that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have more respect for anyone, in any job, who puts their life on the line doing something which I would never want to do - fire, police and armed forces immediately spring to mind.

    The fact that people cannot see that in our armed forces just underlines, for me, that they take their freedoms and lifestyle for granted. There is a cost to it all, and they are the ones whom pay the price (whether you agree with the reasons or not). It saddens me that people cannot see that.

    Many other people risk their lives every day. Where's the respect for them?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Melian wrote: »
    Many other people risk their lives every day. Where's the respect for them?

    The examples I gave are people who deliberately put their lives in peril to save others. It wasn't and exhaustive list by any means.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think they deserve respect just because of what they do - people deserve respect for their individual actions, not the job they have chosen - and yeah, it's sad when they get hurt, but that is a risk of the job. Maybe there should be more provision for veterans, but I think there are much better charitable organisations for me to give my money to which are nothing to do with people getting hurt in a job where it's almost part of the sodding job description.

    i think a lot of people take this view, but when someone you know is killed your whole perspective shifts. these are brave people and they do deserve our respect, in the same way that firefighters who run into burning buildings deserve our respect. of course they know the risk, but why should that mean that we don't respect them?

    at the end of the day, if brave young men and women didn't volunteer to go to war and run the risk of being injured or killed, then we'd end up with conscription and there would be no choice. i don't agree with war, i think it is an evil and upsetting thing and i struggle to get through the remembrance day footage every year without crying. but as long as wars are faught we will need people to go out and do their part, to face the terrible risks, and i think that deseves the upmost respect.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    even if you dont agree with the war in the first place???

    They sign up to fight for the queen and to do it whatever the cause.

    What wars are they out fighting thats protecting us?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    omg hi wrote: »
    i think a lot of people take this view, but when someone you know is killed your whole perspective shifts. these are brave people and they do deserve our respect, in the same way that firefighters who run into burning buildings deserve our respect. of course they know the risk, but why should that mean that we don't respect them?

    Many other people are brave and have equally risky jobs. Why don't they get the same respect as armed forces?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    even if you dont agree with the war in the first place???

    They sign up to fight for the queen and to do it whatever the cause.

    What wars are they out fighting thats protecting us?

    Fighting the taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan does have the ultimate aim of protecting us, had we not gone in there it's highly probable more attacks on the UK woud have been planned there and then executed.

    Iraq was an entirely different story.

    I respect anyone who risks their life every day for their country and certainly think they should be paid more (as should firefighters and nurses) but they do sign up through choice, knowing the risks, which is why it makes me cringe a little bit whenever i see people coming out after a soldier has died saying "he never should have been there" and having a go at the politicians.

    Everyone has choices and the soldiers choose to go to war when they sign up....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i think we probably pissed them off more than anything.
    Its not like they attacked all the countries that didnt go in to fight them
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Melian wrote: »
    Many other people are brave and have equally risky jobs. Why don't they get the same respect as armed forces?

    i don't know.
    they certainly have the same respect from me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i think we probably pissed them off more than anything.
    Its not like they attacked all the countries that didnt go in to fight them

    We definitely pissed the Argentines off more by defending the Falklands. I don't think that is a good reason not to fight though.

    There is little doubt that Afghanistan and Iraq were as much about oil as anything else. Whilst I agree that those conflicts aren't about defending our territory, they are certainly about protecting our interests. Oil is going to become more and more of a vital resource in the next few years.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i think we probably pissed them off more than anything.
    Its not like they attacked all the countries that didnt go in to fight them

    there is that, but we went in after they had attacked the US and like it or not the US & the UK are inextricably linked and the "beacons" of western civilization if you like.....
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