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Woe is me.
Anyway, what were we on about?
I'd use it at work and watch idiot bossman's head explode with all the awkward femaleness
Or a Tampax one? :chin:
Surely a condom rubber would be better?
Saying that, once you've started a course you shouldn't just stop taking them, you need to ease yourself off them - certainly talk to your doctor about it.
SSRIs don't work by themselves, but they do work at reducing pain. More of a co-codamol rather than a cure, but they do what they're meant to do.
That's right because anybody there dare mention the questionable science behind SSRI's and the FACT that they they carry risks is a Scientologist. :rolleyes:
That's such a simple statement it's nonsense.
I won't stop 'banging on about them' until there's a bit of balance here. It's become a mainstay of popular culture (and that shows on this forum) that they are effective, when the reality is that in all but the most severe depression they are no more effective than a placebo. And in the cases of severe depression it's not that they are more effective, it's that the placebo is less effective - conclusions drawn from trials commited by the big pharma companies themselves.
The science behind them has some serious flaws. They're undeniably over prescribed. They're mind altering, addictiven drugs with some serious risks that a lot of people seem either ignorant to, or blasé about.
In the drugs forum we talk freely about different recreational drugs but the risks are never ignored. Nobody in there would dare recommend that somebody take a certain drug, yet here in the health forum there have been several occasions when another poster has recommended "Ask your GP for some AD's".
As I said just want to add some balance. I'm never critical of somebody takign medication to treat what must be a horrible condition. If you don't like it, it aint my problem.
As a general statement this has some truth in it.
A meta-analysis (combination of the results of a number of clinical studies) showed that for mild/moderate depression there was minimal difference between SSRI and Placebo but for severe depression, the benefit of medications over placebo is substantial.
Link to analysis
I'm not sure what "serious" risks you are talking about.
However, I cannot remember anyone here (nor most GPs) advocating the use of SSRI in isolation and that is the key to their effectiveness for moderate/mild depression and anxiety.
In some cases the placebo was more effective. It's rough science that's become a mainstay of popular culture. You can see that with the attitude of people here. I'm not writing of SSRI's completely, just saying that this 'chemical inbalance' theory is just that - still a theory. I'm not sorry that I need more persuading.
The back of any SSRI packaging should list a fair few.
These trials show that for a large proportion of cases a placebo is as effective at treating depression, but worth noting that the placebo has none of the nasty side effects.
Increased sucicidal thoughts
Risk of seratonin syndrome.
Decreased liver function and bone fractures in elderly people
Increased risk of depression in adult life for young people treated with SSRI's
Permament sexual dysfunction.
Addiction
There's a correlation between teenagers in the US on SSRI's and school shootings.
SSRI's fuck with you levels of dopamine as well as seratonin. Dopamine is an extremely powerful chemical that carry's it's own set of problems - just ask any crackhead.
There are some serious flaws in the whole science behind SSRI's. To treat somebody with SSRI's you have to assume (because there's no test for it) that that person is lacking seratonin. To treat them with a drug that then increase levels of seratoning by hundreds of percent and fuck around with dopamine levels too seems fucked up to me. Especially when you consider that these outragously higher levels of seratonin have fuck all effect for months - if at all for a lot of people.
Really? That's what happened with my sister, they gave her the drugs and fucked her off. No other support was offered apart from chats with her GP and the meds. In the end she came off the AD's went to paid for a lot of sessions with a hypnotherapist and got ger condition resolved - though she still has a small problem with anxiety - depsite being an exotic dancer D
I don't blame the GP's I think support for poeple for mental health issues is lacking, I don't doubt that a lot of GP's do there best - but their best shouldn't be meds as a first line treatment. I think depending on what postcode you fall into that is exactly what AD's are.
A couple of thoughts
1. Cause/effect. Is it the drugs causing the shootings or the person's mental health
2. Yes, those are listed. As is the relative risk of each.
3. Many drugs carry similar warnings of risks
That's why I said "most"
Mental Health service as a scandal IMHO. I blame the politicians and the general public for cussing too much in the past few years on surgical waiting lists and A&E waits. This has meant huge investment in these services and buggerall in MH services - yet MH is actually the biggest risk this country faces, in terms of future health costs, especially dementia.
*Agrees*
1. I'm sure that's the answer Big Pharma would favour. However one side effect listed for SSRI's is Mania. There is a fair bit of evidence in faour of the link between shootings and SSRI's. Still, like SSRI's themselves, it's certainly not prooven. Worth a mention though.
2. Why did you ask then? Are they not serious?
3. Increase in sucidal thoughts, Mania, Seratonin Syndrome. Not many other drugs. Adn I bet those that do have a better record for effectiveness in the ailment they're being prescibed to treat.
From what I've seen it's a bit of postcode lottery in whether you fobbed off with meds or you get some serious treatment. It means that some people really don't fully understand what they've been prescribed and the risks that are involved - and the fact there may be better treatments out there.
:yes:
And the way to get this changed is wiht more discussion about treaments being offered.
One of the risks of crossing the road is getting killed. It's serious but
not that likely. They important aspect of risk isn't the consequence but the likelihood of that consequence occurring.
I think it's more than that. There's the stigma and the hidden symptoms.
Did you just compare crossing the road to taking medication? Crossing the road is a necessity (if you actually ever want to go anywhere).
We're talking about drugs that work on unprooven science.
I remember my sisters box of SSRI's saying that she has a 71% chance of adverse effects, and she did get a few, but got no benifit at all.
Another important aspect of risk with regards to medication is whether the cons outweigh to pro's. For many poeple taking SSRI's this is not the case, for many the risks outweigh the benifits.
If we refer back to the fact that in most cases SSRI's have been prooven to be minimally better, no better, or worse than placebo in treating depression. In only the most severely depressed are SSRI's significantly more effective than placebo. This is not because SRRI's are more effective at treating sevfere depression, it's because placebos are less effective at treating severe depression.
One important factor here though is that placebo doesn't carry any of the risks an SSRI does. There is no harm in taking a placebo.
It doesn't help that the belief in SSRI's is so strong, despite the lack of evidence in their effectiveness, and the fact that they have serious side effects.
I'm just fed up with people stating theory as fact when it's not. I'm not making shit up here yet I stick for pointing out the dangerous. I shouldn't have to point out that there are risks involved, people who are taking this medication should know themselves. Not that I blame them, I don't think they've been full informed by their GPS what they're being prescribed.
Take a walk off to P&D on this one. Having a debate on the right and wrongs of medication isn't going to help someone with their concerns with their GP.
Fair enuff. Would be nice to be able to offer a bit of advice without being told to stop banging on though - I wasn't preaching at first.
/out
Only in terms of risks (not benefits). The point I was trying to make is that all Pharma carries published risk because it's required by law. Even if only one patient in 1000 will suffer those side effects during clinical trials.
Serious consequence isn't the issue, prevalence of that consequence is.
In this case if 1 person in a million has increase level of suicidal thoughts then for that person it's serious. For the other 999,999 people on that medication it isn't.
But yeah, this is probably more for P&D.