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Consent and the work of Peter Tatchell
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
carry on...
you appear to have confused missing the point with not agreeing with you. I've stated my reasons, and I've stated that criteria under which I would support Tathchell's comments or not. What you are looking for is a blanket condemnation by inference on his comments; I've already stated that there are problems with his arguement, and that the protection of children needs more robust support than what he appears to put forward.
What I won't do is automatically condemn all possible relations a priori; in direct response to your example, no, I wouldn't think that sexual relations between a 16 y/o and a 13 y/o is paedophillia 'by definition' because the possible boundaries for different people of this age group can be so broad.
What I do acknowledge is that there could be harmful and exploitative relations resulting from THIS PARTICULAR EXAMPLE
Way to the miss point. We ain't talking merely about sexophobia here.
If Tatchell really believes in a 3 year limit, why no condemnation of the adults having sex with a child of primary school age, even worse a clearly vulnerable child who had ran away from a home? You don't think that's absolutely reprehensible? 'Coz Tatchell doesn't think so! At least sick freaks like Ginsberg admitted their perversion openly...
His agenda is clear, and I think you're deliberately ignoring it on the grounds that because someone is fighting for 'egalitarianism', they are above criticism - something which I've noted when engaging others in the past.
It's worth noting that a 16 y/o having sex with a 13 y/o is, by definition, paedophilia. And, while some 13 y/o's may be 'ready' for sex, many are not and exploitation IS inevitable from the 3 year limit.
you appear to have confused missing the point with not agreeing with you. I've stated my reasons, and I've stated that criteria under which I would support Tathchell's comments or not. What you are looking for is a blanket condemnation by inference on his comments; I've already stated that there are problems with his arguement, and that the protection of children needs more robust support than what he appears to put forward.
What I won't do is automatically condemn all possible relations a priori; in direct response to your example, no, I wouldn't think that sexual relations between a 16 y/o and a 13 y/o is paedophillia 'by definition' because the possible boundaries for different people of this age group can be so broad.
What I do acknowledge is that there could be harmful and exploitative relations resulting from THIS PARTICULAR EXAMPLE
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Comments
Do you actually think that if a man has sex with a girl aged 15 years, 11 months and 364 days he is a paedophile, but if he chose to wait 24 more hours he would not be?
Nothing is black and white. A sixteen year old who has sex with a 13 year old is not a paedophile.
To be honest, I find a 16 year old and a 12 year old having sex less creepy than a 40 year old and a 16 year old (of course, that is ageism) and how is a 16 year old anymore self-aware or sexually mature than a 14 year old?
What's this topic about though? Where's it carried on from?
ETA: Just been reading up on Wiki, and it says that it's estimated that only 2-10% of child sex offenders are actually medically speaking, a paedophile. I suppose though, in the same way that rape isn't specifically about sexual attraction, child abuse isn't either?
ETA 2: I can't find the story, but did anyone hear that case of a bloke who picked up a 10 year old girl outside a pub, had sex with her, and his only punishment was 2 years on a sex offenders register, because the jury agreed that it was an exceptional case because she looked so old and he assumed she was over 16?
The law can't cover everything and it is very black and white and the real world is not. Like assisted suicide when someone is incapacitated, and like a 16 year old sleeping with his 15 year old partner. Technically wrong by law but ethically would the majority of people have a problem with it? Of course there are those who still think ethically any kind of sex for fun is evil , so I can see where Namaste is coming from with the sex is taboo angle.
But it makes me wonder why in gay culture (apparently) the older men like to pick up young boys (15 / 16). This was told to me by my gay friend who says that young boys are seen as very attractive in 'the scene'. It's all consensual, so I don't think it's an issue of taking advantage or anything, at least not in any typical sense. Because the younger ones prefer the older ones too. I am of course talking generally, not for everyone. And that this isn't because they're homosexual, but because of the social circle in gay clubs etc. - although I may be wrong, this is what I've been told.
And another thing that happens but which strangely many people have little problem with, is 15 and 14 year old boys shagging women in their 20s or even 30s. When that happens few scream 'paedophile!' at the woman, preferring instead to pat the boy in question on the back in admiration.
Make of that what you will.
You think?
I think the woman would be judged very harshly for that.
To be honest I think the kind of people who would admire a 14 year old for having sex with a 30 year old woman are pretty much the same type of person who would admire a 30 year old man who had a 14/15 year old girlfriend. Neither of which are the kind of person I'd see as particuarly healthy.
I also think people are way too quick to forget just how young many, many 12 or 13 year olds are. Whilst it may be in vogue to imagine every 13 year old these days as sexually aware and experienced I don't think that is the reality for many, many young people.
And lets not forget that pretty much all studies still make it clear that the average age for losing your virginity is 16 or 17.