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Consent and the work of Peter Tatchell

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
carry on...
Way to the miss point. We ain't talking merely about sexophobia here.

If Tatchell really believes in a 3 year limit, why no condemnation of the adults having sex with a child of primary school age, even worse a clearly vulnerable child who had ran away from a home? You don't think that's absolutely reprehensible? 'Coz Tatchell doesn't think so! At least sick freaks like Ginsberg admitted their perversion openly...

His agenda is clear, and I think you're deliberately ignoring it on the grounds that because someone is fighting for 'egalitarianism', they are above criticism - something which I've noted when engaging others in the past.

It's worth noting that a 16 y/o having sex with a 13 y/o is, by definition, paedophilia. And, while some 13 y/o's may be 'ready' for sex, many are not and exploitation IS inevitable from the 3 year limit.

you appear to have confused missing the point with not agreeing with you. I've stated my reasons, and I've stated that criteria under which I would support Tathchell's comments or not. What you are looking for is a blanket condemnation by inference on his comments; I've already stated that there are problems with his arguement, and that the protection of children needs more robust support than what he appears to put forward.

What I won't do is automatically condemn all possible relations a priori; in direct response to your example, no, I wouldn't think that sexual relations between a 16 y/o and a 13 y/o is paedophillia 'by definition' because the possible boundaries for different people of this age group can be so broad.

What I do acknowledge is that there could be harmful and exploitative relations resulting from THIS PARTICULAR EXAMPLE

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    spliffie wrote:
    It's worth noting that a 16 y/o having sex with a 13 y/o is, by definition, paedophilia.
    I reckon most people don't see it that way today. Which is the point Thatchell was making.

    Do you actually think that if a man has sex with a girl aged 15 years, 11 months and 364 days he is a paedophile, but if he chose to wait 24 more hours he would not be?

    Nothing is black and white. A sixteen year old who has sex with a 13 year old is not a paedophile.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well to be honest, I think that most people have sex underage anyway and I also know people who have been gaving sex since very young (mainly gay men). I think it's more of a cultural taboo than anything... In fact sexuality as a whole seems like a taboo. We are more open than some countries, but still behind others in what we let our children see.

    To be honest, I find a 16 year old and a 12 year old having sex less creepy than a 40 year old and a 16 year old (of course, that is ageism) and how is a 16 year old anymore self-aware or sexually mature than a 14 year old?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wouldn't think that sexual relations between a 16 y/o and a 13 y/o is paedophillia 'by definition' because the possible boundaries for different people of this age group can be so broad.
    I think it's worth noting that even a 50 year old having sex with a 13 year old isn't necessarily paedophilia, because paedophilia refers to the attraction to pre-pubescent children. As soon as a person has everything that naturally makes her attractive to the opposite sex, it is no longer "by definition" paedophilia, no matter what age she happens to be.

    What's this topic about though? Where's it carried on from?

    ETA: Just been reading up on Wiki, and it says that it's estimated that only 2-10% of child sex offenders are actually medically speaking, a paedophile. I suppose though, in the same way that rape isn't specifically about sexual attraction, child abuse isn't either?

    ETA 2: I can't find the story, but did anyone hear that case of a bloke who picked up a 10 year old girl outside a pub, had sex with her, and his only punishment was 2 years on a sex offenders register, because the jury agreed that it was an exceptional case because she looked so old and he assumed she was over 16?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My gay friend who is 17 is sleeping with a 35 year old man. I think it's very iffy. The man gives him presents that are ridiculously expensive - like a pair of £150 sunglasses and a car. Although my friend is quite sensible normally, it just doesn't seem appropriate. However, no laws against it are there?

    The law can't cover everything and it is very black and white and the real world is not. Like assisted suicide when someone is incapacitated, and like a 16 year old sleeping with his 15 year old partner. Technically wrong by law but ethically would the majority of people have a problem with it? Of course there are those who still think ethically any kind of sex for fun is evil :p, so I can see where Namaste is coming from with the sex is taboo angle.

    But it makes me wonder why in gay culture (apparently) the older men like to pick up young boys (15 / 16). This was told to me by my gay friend who says that young boys are seen as very attractive in 'the scene'. It's all consensual, so I don't think it's an issue of taking advantage or anything, at least not in any typical sense. Because the younger ones prefer the older ones too. I am of course talking generally, not for everyone. And that this isn't because they're homosexual, but because of the social circle in gay clubs etc. - although I may be wrong, this is what I've been told.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That happens in the straight scene too, though perhaps to a lesser degree.

    And another thing that happens but which strangely many people have little problem with, is 15 and 14 year old boys shagging women in their 20s or even 30s. When that happens few scream 'paedophile!' at the woman, preferring instead to pat the boy in question on the back in admiration.

    Make of that what you will.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Reminds me of South Park that does Aladdin.... "Nice" You're definatly right about the woman thing, they are not demonised while a man is Satan himself.:chin:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yep, but a gay 15 year old lad isn't patted on the back for pulling an older bloke. Interesting that isn't it?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    That happens in the straight scene too, though perhaps to a lesser degree.

    And another thing that happens but which strangely many people have little problem with, is 15 and 14 year old boys shagging women in their 20s or even 30s. When that happens few scream 'paedophile!' at the woman, preferring instead to pat the boy in question on the back in admiration.

    Make of that what you will.

    You think?

    I think the woman would be judged very harshly for that.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I thought that too, I think people can be pretty quick to assume what people's reactions will be whereas media reaction and reaction from people I know to stories about older women and very young men would suggest that in reality it's hardly seen as any more acceptable.

    To be honest I think the kind of people who would admire a 14 year old for having sex with a 30 year old woman are pretty much the same type of person who would admire a 30 year old man who had a 14/15 year old girlfriend. Neither of which are the kind of person I'd see as particuarly healthy.

    I also think people are way too quick to forget just how young many, many 12 or 13 year olds are. Whilst it may be in vogue to imagine every 13 year old these days as sexually aware and experienced I don't think that is the reality for many, many young people.

    And lets not forget that pretty much all studies still make it clear that the average age for losing your virginity is 16 or 17.
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