If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Options
Essential support for under 25s
Essential support for under 25s
Take a look around and enjoy reading the discussions. If you'd like to join in, it's really easy to register and then you'll be able to post. If you'd like to learn what this place is all about, head here.
Comments
Yeah it was awful - I tried appealing to her better nature (her being a woman I thought she may have been more understanding)but to no avail. But at the end of the day I was a silly 18 yr old that was denying what was happening to my body for weeks and weeks thus going to the doctors so late. I actually went to my docs when I was 13 weeks.
absolutely!
People have been banned for repeatedly insulting the users of this board who have had abortions as murderers.
I find this slightly odd. What actually is the latest you can have an abortion? Is it 20 weeks or 22?
So you think that if a doctor is against abortion, they should refer you to someone who would be alright doing it? If that's what you're trying to say, then yeah, I do agree with you.
Well, when you use language like 'I don't want to commit murder' and 'and do not believe in murdering innocent children' it doesn't really show your dispassionate colours through in dealing with a situation like that, even if it's just on a public message board and not in front of patients. If you believe it's murder, then you believe that the 1 in 3 women in the UK who have abortions are murderers, and that is passing judgement, whether you believe it or not.
They don't need anyone thinking that of them, let alone someone who is thinking about being a healthcare professional. While GPs don't perform them themselves, they're the first port of call for many women facing an unwanted pregnancy. While it's unrelated, having good grades doesn't make anyone a good doctor, as you'll know, it's so much more than that, like putting your feelings aside and putting the patient first. If you're intelligent enough to get A* grades, then you should be intellectually honest enough with yourself to see the difference in terminating a pregnancy, and ending the life of a born person, or at least brush up on the legal terms.
I take great offense that someone would think I'm committing murder by suctioning an embryo, vs battering a born, senitent 5 year old child to death. They're not the same thing. It detracts from debate, makes the antis look more irrational than they already to (IMO anyway) and paints a picture of people who perform abortions as blood-loving sadists. One of the reasons I'll perform abortions is because I refuse to allow any of my patients to do what 19 million women already have to do - and that is try and end the pregnancy themselves. 70,000 women die a year as a result. It's not so wrong that I don't want women to die, just as you don't want foetuses to be aborted, but it's one of the other, and for me - as a woman and a feminist - the woman trumps every single time.
As I said before, your remarks state otherwise, even if they're done privately in your own thoughts rather than the public domain. If I never have an abortion in my lifetime, I'd change doctors in a flash if I knew that's how they though, even if they were willing to refer me to someone else. It's the whole, hate the sin, love the sinner thing, and I dunno, it doesn't sit very comfortably with me.
I don't think anyone here is questioning your future abilities as a doctor, you obviously have an idea of what the GMC expects in terms of referrals etc, but in your career, you'll see a multitude of things that you'll disagree with, and it's up to you to use your skills and judgement to do what is best for the patient, and not always for you.
You sure it's that late? I was always told it was early to possibly mid 20s.
I do remember being told those reasons though.
24. (It was 28 weeks until the Abortion Act was updated, in 1991 I think) Well, at Marie Stopes it's 23 weeks and 4 days, at BPAS I think it's still 23+6. If it's a case of severe foetal abnormality or to save the woman's life, then it's legal until birth.
The procedures change slightly after 14 weeks (where a woman would have to take medication to soften the cervix), and after 19 weeks (where sticks of dilapan are inserted into the cervix to dilate it to about 3cm).
No. It was nothing to do with you or anything being wrong with the baby. It's what the doctor said to you about how being 15 weeks is 'too late'.
I don't know, I don't like the idea of opt-out just because I think a doctor (like a PC) when they're clocked in aren't the same as a private individual with respect to their right to object on moral grounds etc. because they have a higher responsibility that they should acknowledge when they sign up - the patient.
By all means if the opportunity for another doctor to do it comes up then great, but they should still be prepared to do it if needs must.
Bloody hell, that doesn't seem right. Surely if someone can't support their child, then they should be entitled to benefits so they can (although I'm sure some bastards would even want to deny them that).
Yes, thin about discrimination legislation here.
Remember, most people with such extreme religious views would not put themself in those positions in the first place - where their clinical and moral paths cross. however there are some areas where it cannot be avoided - anaethetics for example, theatre nursing is another. In those cases there are other people who cover termination lists.
Also worth pointing out, again, that there is increasing usage of organisations like Marie Stopes who specialise in this service. Partly because they can actually offer a better all round service than any NHS provider because they are geared up to specifically offer the full service - NHS trust tend to see counselling etc as an add on IME.
For the record, I placed our local contract with marie Stopes a long time ago and have never regretted it. Besides, it also frees theatre space for those cases which *need* to be in a hospital...
You have to consider what circumstances you are talking about there. You can only really mean life threat for mother in which case the doctor has a duty to put her life first anyway, as I understand things.
Someone who phoned into The Wright Stuff the other day said that they got 20 minutes with a counciller beforehand, where they didn't actually discuss the decision itself, and that was it. The she went through with it and regretted it.
I don't know. Yes, statistics can be and are manipulated.
Which is what I thought. I'm sure I was told about the risk to her other children, but thought that was more to do with the children's health not finances. (as in, if the mother has a terminally ill child and feels that she couldn't look after another child if she had one)
You may not be able to get that, but certainly for the pharmacies around here you can find out which ones will, which is pretty much the same and probably more useful because the website gives you a list of where you can go, as opposed to where you can't and you have to think of other places.
Does that mean you failed that question then?
I can see an argument for moral or relgious reasons for not wanting to carry out the procedure (providing an alternative is available), but it's when you get doctors abusing this because they don't want to mention to their friends that part of their job involves doing abortions. I think the main problem in that instance is that there are far too many people that have a fairly archaic view of abortion and the reasons that a woman might choose to have one (this idea of using it as contraception, for example). These are the people that put the social pressure on doctors not to be seen to do abortions, in the same way that they judge women who choose to have an abortion. If these attitudes change, then the only doctors that choose not to carry out abortions are the ones that do so as a personal choice, rather than because they're afraid of what others might think.
The crux of the matter is that religious beliefs should not have special dispensation over any other beliefs when interacting with others at a professional level. Though that's perhaps another debate...
No they shouldn't (remember the whole abortion clinic crap - let's not go there again), but they don't in this case.
At least if people have the chance to opt out of providing these services then there is some hope that the ones who do will provide reasonably unbiased advice and be somewhat less judgemental than someone who finds the whole idea abhorrent as however hard they tried to be professional there would be a massive conflict in their minds.
It's very similar to medical professionals referring other cases they are not comfortable doing, for whatever reason, be it lack of understanding or professional expertise.