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Next time we talk diving
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Remind me to bring this up.... http://www.goalymoly.co.uk/
Thank you to goalymoly for pointing me to this clip. Not sure how I missed it... got to be best ever dive...
Thank you to goalymoly for pointing me to this clip. Not sure how I missed it... got to be best ever dive...
Post edited by JustV on
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I never thought I'd say it but Arsenal seem to have become more arrogant recently, which is funny considering they're barely in fourth place. Criticising teams for *shock horror* playing defensively when they come to the Emirates. Oh, sorry Mr Wenger, next season we'll come and open up and play right into your hands and get stuffed 5-0. Will you stop whinging then you arrogant cunt?
As for Henry, he's a disgrace. I've lost so much respect for him within the last year. The taunting of Kirkland is only the latest in a string of things. The way he whinged after the Champions League final was pathetic and childish. The way he cheated to get Puyol sent off in the World Cup, and the subsequent free kick which knocked Spain out. None of it sits well with me. Oh well, just desserts in the end, losing the two biggest finals of his life. He's past his best now. I used to say Arsenal were a one-man team. I actually don't think they need him much these days.
As for the diving debate, well until I see players like Berbatov, Zokora, Campo, Diouf, Kuyt, Gerrard, Henry and Eboue getting the same treatment and press slaughtering as Ronaldo, I don't think the debate is worth happening. People only want to criticise when it suits their own agendas.
I was going for light hearted rather than the usual abusive thread.
I mean that was a classic...
Oh, it's been building for a while now.
That Wigan game was just taking the piss though.
It was indeed.
Maybe he was trying to out-do ex-teammate Vieira.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KWPzu04PtQ
It was certainly bad, but I'm a firm believer in things becoming even in the end.
Another good one...
I only saw one player diving twice there.
http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=448930&CPID=1&clid=3&lid=&title=Hughes+unhappy+with+Fabregas&channel=&
Fabregas is unquestionably a good player but he seems to be acquiring some of the undesirable traits of his captain. What an arrogant wee fuck talking to Mark Hughes like that. If he achieves half of what Sparky achieved, he'll have had a good career. Someone needs to bring some of those players and their manager down a peg or two... oh wait, teams have been doing it all season, but they never learn. Arsenal seem to think they have a divine right to success just because they play lovely pretty football (which by the way, was nowhere to be seen today).
I respect Paul Jewell, I think he could do a very good job at a "big" club, but all this talk of £50million loss is bollocks. It's how you do over the league season, thats 38 games Paul, that decide whether you stay up or go down. How much would not qualifying for the Champions League cost Arsenal?
Maybe we didn't deserve to win, though it seems Arsenal have a divine right to lose to any club that "sticks it up 'em". If we don't we must've done it by some deception or other wicked foreign ways.
As for Fabregas, he's got some bite about him. I like that. But lets face it, Hughes pwned him in that bit of banter, and thats all it was. I think its a shame that someone who's achieved so much and turned Wales into an attractive attacking force that beat Germany and Italy (with inferior players than those at Blackburn) has to resort to 10-men behind the ball, though he's perfectly entitled to do so.
I know it's 38 games that count but that victory would have put them 8 points clear of relegation. There's not much football to play and the psychological advantage would have been huge. If Wigan had of won that match, it would have almost certainly secured their premiership status IMO. It was definitely the most biased referreeing performance of the season and if Wigan get relegated by a point or two, or if Arsenal get into the CL by a point or two, this game will be a major reason why.
When you've got a depleted midtable squad and your playing against a more or less full strength Arsenal at their ground, you're going to play a defensive game. It's not a shame or a slight on the manager, it's just tactics. I saw Arsenal use similar tactics to get to a Champion's League final last year. You can't really blame Blackburn then if they approach the game with a cautious attitude, especially after getting done in the league earlier this term. Maybe if Fabregas had the same bite on the pitch as he does off it, you'd be more effective at battling out wins against teams like Blackburn and Sheffield United.
Thought this would be on topic, and yet make some of you feel better.
I'd love to believe that, but its not true. It never has been. What goes around doesn't come around, otherwise Roy Keane wouldn't be able to walk again.
Remember Bolton in 2001? I do. Blatant goal against Everton disallowed, resulting in two dropped points. Bolton went down by one point, Everton were the next team above them. One decision cost Bolton about £15m.
Each result counts, and I think that referees who get them wrong should become personally liable for the financial troubles clubs have.
Fabregas is perfectly entitled to criticise Blackburn for what they did. Blackburn have been the most negative team I've seen all season, and that includes the long-ball merchants over at Bolton. They got the result they wanted, though, and all credit to them. It's just a shame that this league has become all about not losing, rather than trying to beat teams. It's worse than Serie A. Bolton and Chelsea are successful, but I'd rather watch paint dry.
Don't be silly, Ronaldo never cheated ever, and if you dare to comment on his diving its because you're an awful racist ABU who only hates him because he's foreign!!!
How predictable.
At least Ronaldo doesn't portray himself as 'Mr fairplay model professional nice guy' and say ridiculous things like "Next time I'll learn to dive maybe, but I'm not a woman" and then go out and dive all season. Ronaldo's no angel, but at least he doesn't try and dupe the public into thinking he's one by portraying himself as something he's clearly not.
Well, when people have previously used descriptions such as dago filth, it's a natural assumption to make. Or is it OK to use racist terms when you think the person deserves it Kermit?
Ronaldo doesn't try to dupe the public?
Oh right, so it's not OK to "dupe the public" (whatever in the name of Christ that means) but it's fine to try and dupe referees every week of the year (far, far more than Henry ever does)?
You really need to take them blinkers off.
What are you talking about? Is this diifficult to comprehend? I meant concerning his image - Henry attempts to portray himself as a model professional good guy, when he's nothing of the sort. Ronaldo doesn't. That's what I really take issue with Henry over. It's debateable whether Ronaldo cheats more than Henry these days, but if you're more informed, please enlighten me. Just because everything Ronaldo does gets spread all over 2 pages in the tabloids doesn't mean it's more salient. I doubt Henry's dive at the weekend, or previous dives this season for that matter, have even been given two column inches in the papers. What he did at the World Cup was 100 times worse than what Ronaldo did to Rooney as well, but there was no fuss there either. It's OK to be a cunt, just don't do it against England.
So it’s better to be a twat and be loud and proud about it than be less of a twat and not be?
It’s to be expected from the English gutter press though though, because it (apparently) contributed to English getting knocked out of the World Cup. If Henry did what he did against them then I’m sure Henry would have been the scapegoat there too, but Henry doesn’t have has as much previous for cheating, and he doesn’t play for the most despised club in the land, so it wouldn’t have been as bad.
And for the record, what Ronaldo did at the World Cup wasn’t as bad as it was made about to be, but then neither was what Henry did (mainly because the ref had given a free kick for the fould already) and it didn’t affect the game one little bit. Not that it condones it, but still...
Errrrr your on a website mainly used by the English, you read English newspapers so obviously going to be more about it in the papers than a game between two teams who are not English!! That is obvious isn't it??
Eh, that's not the point I was making at all. Ronaldo is not loud and
proud about anything, quite the opposite. Henry is a fraud and if anyone's loud and proud about anything it's him about being a nice guy and a model professional who doesn't cheat. Clearly it works.
That's my point exactly. Henry is just as much if not more of a cunt than Ronaldo, but gets away with it, because he hasn't done anything against England, and he doesn't play for United - the most despised club in the land.
What? The Henry incident was a joke, and was never a foul. He ran into Puyol, fell to the ground like a sack of spuds and clutched his face, not only trying to win a dodgy free kick, but get Puyol sent off in the process. If that's not cheating, I don't know what is. Of course it affected the outcome of the game.
I was talking about this season, in our national league, which is very much of interest to the English papers I would have thought. When Ronaldo is suspected of diving it gets a two page spread. Henry's dives (some of which are far more blatant that anything Ronaldo's done this year) will be lucky to get 10 words.
Ronaldo is more of a cheat that Henry, pure and simple.
Henry's done more for the positive image of football (anti-racism campaigns etc) than Ronaldo will ever do. Unless you count cheating and shagging birds from Hollyoaks as counting as being a positive role model.
Wrong again about Henry.
And there's various reasons as to why United are hated, but they've been well documented on here and there's no point going round in circles. Diving cheats who play for Man United are especially despised, and there's good reason for that.
Whether it was a foul or not (it was) wasn't affected by Henry's play acting. I also notice you're not so quick to condemn Puyol for his CL final antics, which is why Henry did what he did, rather than because he's an out and out cheat like our Portugese friend.
This is all a bit silly really, you're defending the indefensable. As far as I'm aware none of the Ronaldo detractors are Arsenal fans, and I'm pretty sure if Ronaldo was the Gooner and Henry played for United then you'd change your tune quick smart.
So Ronaldo's never lent himself to an anti-racism campaign or done anything of merit for the game? I know for a fact he flew out to Indonesia after the tsunami and has done alot of things to help victims there (look it up if you're interested). I think you give him less credit than he's due. Pretty pathetic that you'd use a footballer's private life against them as well.
Oh there's reason. Whether it's good or not is a different matter.
You're worse than Kermit with your "i notice you're not so quick to condemn..." bollocks. It's like a copy and paste job right out of another thread. Where was I asked to condemn Puyol for his antics in the CL? I must have missed that bit in the thread. Do I have to clarify my position on every bit of unsporting behaviour in the history of football ever before I can make a point on a single incident? Anyway that's besides the point. You're basically saying it's a legitimate foul if someone dives to the ground now (like Henry did against Puyol)? You're saying that's not cheating, but what Ronaldo apparently does is?
The only point I'm making is that everything Ronaldo does is blown out of proportion (relative to other cheating) because he's a villain for apparently putting little England out of their World Cup. I know Ronaldo's not whiter than white, but all I'm saying is at least he doesn't falsely portray himself as so.
And what's wrong with holding a grudge? Arn't they part of football and sport in general?
Yes other players cheat, but that's not a defense for his actions - which is really what this thread is about.
Cheating and diving is indefensible.
Well you're slagging off Henry for painting himself as a goody-two shoes in the media and duping the public, right?
Does this mean that you don't think he should bother with being the face of the anti-racism campagins, or anything then? Hey, it might mean black kids feel more isolated when they're kicking a ball about, but at least it means he wouldn't be trying to paint himself as a saint when he isn't like that Ronaldo, eh?
Say you were right, and Henry was a really bad diver. Do you not think it's better to be a diver and a face of anti-racism campaigns, or just a diver?
Your posts would suggest the latter.
Eh, no.
But it was well documented after the event that the play acting in the CL final had a lot to do with Henry's play acting in the World Cup, and it wasn't just random diving like Ronaldo does.
It wasn't right what Henry did, but the ref called it as a foul, and I think it was a foul irrespective of whether Henry playacted or not. Ronaldo goes down when he blatantly isn't even touched, which is just as bad if not worse IMO.
Henry doesn't consistently do it, though, which is a crucial argument. Maybe its just selective editing from the BBC, but every Manchester United game I watch features at least two dives from Ronaldo and two more from Rooney. van Nistelrooy was the biggest cheat the Premiership has ever known. Arsenal have a few divers- van Persie has followed on from Pires, and Eboue isn't slow to fall over- but they don't have a team of them who consistently do it. Henry doesn't consistently do it. Nor does Gerrard.
Why are you bringing these anti-racism campaigns into it. It's got fuck all to do with the what we're specifically talking about here: diving and cheating. Henry says he doesn't dive and portrays himself as an honest professional e.g. "Next time I'll learn to dive maybe, but I'm not a woman". It's all bollocks.
I don't take issue with his anti-racism campaigns, and you're making wildy inappropraite and mistaken inferences (not like that to happen round here :rolleyes: ) if you think I was. It's specifically the claims of being an honest professional when he clearly isn't that I take issue with.
Ah right, so the diving and cheating against Wigan and countless other teams all had a motive too, so it's excused. What exactly did these players do that Henry had to respond with cheating? Cheating's OK everyone... if you have a motive. Such logic.
Henry goes down when he isn't touched, or did you not see the clip? Or was poor little Henry only acting in response to something the Wigan defender did in a previous game, so it's OK. Funny how it seems it's OK for some to cheat, but not others. I do wonder.
Saw the clip, with the commentary, and he was caught outside the box. Even Andy Gray said he was caught, and I trust Andy Gray's opinion significantly more than yours.
*shrug*
Because everyone harps on about diving and stamping it out of the game, but they only complain about players when it suits their own agenda. How is diving going to be stamped out when certain players are allowed to get away with it and only players like Ronaldo feel the brunt of the abuse about it?
Noone's defending Ronaldo. I've stated so many times that I know he's not Mr honest, but I'm simply showing how someone like Henry portrays himself as an honest player, when he isn't, and more or less gets away with any cheating he does, because the biased media only point fingers at a select few. Cheating will continue and will get worse while players like Henry, Gerrard, Eboue etc are allowed to get away with it.
You're judging his entire media portrayal on one comment made in the heat of the moment? Compare that to the work he does for charity and it's hardly a case of him duping the public into thinking he's a worthwhile role model.
Henry is, by and large, an honest professional. Flippant comments like the one above only really show his understandable frustration at consistent cheats like Ronaldo, Drogba and the like.
Henry's media image isn't defined by comments like that, and he's far more famous for his fantastic ability than his sporadic and occasional diving, unlike our Portugese friend.
No it isn't, and there's no excuse for it.
It's funny how every thread on this topic ends the same way, but we're not going to change each others minds on this.