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Veiled woman to deliver Channel 4's Xmas message

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It'll be laughing at Christmas - not necessarily being funny.

    And since when is Christmas British as some people mention here? Last time I checked God chose an Arab country to recieve the son of god, not anyone in the west.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Wyetry wrote:
    Islam recognises Jesus as a phrophet and worships the same God as Christian's, Islam is merely an extension of christianity in the same way that christianity is an extension of Judeisum.

    Isn't part of being a christian respecting other people and listening to what they have to say rather than writing them off before you've listend.

    I am neither christian nor muslim yet I feel qualified (and have the degree to prove it) to comment on both.......
    Except Christmas is seen as Jesus the son of god being born. Muslims dont belive he is the son of god. Or do they?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Surely the Winter Solstice is December 21st/22nd? :confused:

    I think it's a little... unusual, though sure it's excellent C4 publicity so I'm not remotely surprised. I take issue with the idea that the alternative Christmas message isn't supposed to be a remotely serious one - whether given by the queen or whoever. Yes, Channel 4 have put a "comedic" (though that in itself is debateable) slant on it some years but you couldn't say that the message delivered by Doreen & Neville Lawrence was - for example - a piss take or anecdotal way to waste a few minutes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    im only in it for the money
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote:
    Surely the Winter Solstice is December 21st/22nd? :confused:

    I think it's a little... unusual, though sure it's excellent C4 publicity so I'm not remotely surprised. I take issue with the idea that the alternative Christmas message isn't supposed to be a remotely serious one - whether given by the queen or whoever. Yes, Channel 4 have put a "comedic" (though that in itself is debateable) slant on it some years but you couldn't say that the message delivered by Doreen & Neville Lawrence was - for example - a piss take or anecdotal way to waste a few minutes.

    Yeah, absolutely - just making a point about the value of an alternative view.

    Hopefully the message will actually promote some of tolerance that seems in short supply from some religious groups - Chrisitians and other religions - at the moment.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    HIT wrote:
    Except Christmas is seen as Jesus the son of god being born. Muslims dont belive he is the son of god. Or do they?

    Muslims don't accept the Trinity but they do belive he was chosen by god to spread his message on earth - in much the same way as Muhammed was.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    HIT wrote:
    Alot of people including my father celebrate Christmas for its true meaning. I dont think its appropriate that Muslims have anything to do with a celebration of Christianity how "alternative" it might be. I cant begin to imagine if the shoe was on the other foot. Oh wait yes I can, more riots.

    Just IMO

    That would be why muslim student groups organise fasts for charity and meals for the end of ramadan that are open to everyone?

    Moron.......

    You might as well criticise Coca-Cola for using Father Christmas as the symbol of christmas........
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    squeal wrote:
    Musllim's don't even celebrate Christmas so why does she get the hounour?

    Doesn't make sense to me.


    you call 'santa' and poor quality music/tv a religious holidays, for me im no christian i see xmas as a chance to get together with family and relax, all i ask for in regards to presents is simple but nice presents like the odd film or cd
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Christmas is a Christian celebration and anyone who isn't a Christian has no place celebrating it.

    I would allow Muslims to take the equivalent amount of time off at Eid, Hindus at Diwali, etc, but Christmas is for Christians.

    It's not a case of the "true" meaning- it is the only meaning.


    not really, considering where the xmas holiday is based ie the assimilation of the pagan holidays - so nowadays it is a odd holiday in that for some it's a religious do, for some its a cultural thing - i dont believe in christ god or anything like that however it works as a bringing people together holiday as in the words of the manics
    'we love the winter it brings us closer together'

    i like Xmas in futurama :thumb: works really well
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Wyetry wrote:
    Muslims don't accept the Trinity but they do belive he was chosen by god to spread his message on earth - in much the same way as Muhammed was.


    they see him as one of many prophets, from talking to a few people knowledgable on the koran, but only a minor one
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    for me im no christian i see xmas as a chance to get together with family and relax, all i ask for in regards to presents is simple but nice presents like the odd film or cd

    I'm also not a Christian, but this also what it means to me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote:
    And since when is Christmas British as some people mention here? Last time I checked God chose an Arab country to recieve the son of god, not anyone in the west.
    :D

    Reminds me of a comment some American fruitcake made once regarding not being able to speak foreign languages: "If English is good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!"
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    No, I'm not saying that. The Christmas message is just a message, and as I say, the Queen has got chuff all to do with it too.

    If you don't believe in it you shouldn't be celebrating it, though. It's as stupid as me celebrating Eid by getting a big barrel of beer and some pork chops for tea.


    what do you mean 'celebrate'? it's a national cultural holiday
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    That would be why muslim student groups organise fasts for charity and meals for the end of ramadan that are open to everyone?

    Moron.......

    You might as well criticise Coca-Cola for using Father Christmas as the symbol of christmas........

    And Christians dont organise charity fund raising all year around?

    The point I am making before you went off topic is that Christmas is seen in the world as a Christian event, yes its also seen as a family event as well. I dont think its appropriate on having a Muslim (or any religion) talk about how Muslims have been penalized on veils at a time of year where its considered as a Christian event. The same as it isn't appropriate if a Christian gave the same message at the time of Ramadan.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    HIT wrote:
    I dont think its appropriate on having a Muslim (or any religion) talk about how Muslims have been penalized on veils at a time of year where its considered as a Christian event.
    But you don't know what she's going to be talking about.

    In any case, even the traditional message given by the Queen herself talks of many things, from multiculturalism to terrorism to war to many other issues. No subject is taboo, and it does not matter who the speaker is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    HIT wrote:
    And Christians dont organise charity fund raising all year around?

    The point I am making before you went off topic is that Christmas is seen in the world as a Christian event, yes its also seen as a family event as well. I dont think its appropriate on having a Muslim (or any religion) talk about how Muslims have been penalized on veils at a time of year where its considered as a Christian event. The same as it isn't appropriate if a Christian gave the same message at the time of Ramadan.

    What did people stop criticising Islam over Ramadan?

    Can't say i noticed, very strange! :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    But you don't know what she's going to be talking about.

    In any case, even the traditional message given by the Queen herself talks of many things, from multiculturalism to terrorism to war to many other issues. No subject is taboo, and it does not matter who the speaker is.
    Didn't the first post say she will be mentioning veils?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    What did people stop criticising Islam over Ramadan?

    Can't say i noticed, very strange! :rolleyes:
    I dont know, enlighten me?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    HIT wrote:
    Didn't the first post say she will be mentioning veils?
    Yes you're right. My bad.

    Still, as I said I don't believe any issue (within reason) is taboo, and it certainly doesn't matter who delivers the message.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what do you mean 'celebrate'? it's a national cultural holiday

    It's a Christian cultural holiday.

    I have no issue with a Muslim doing this speech- great for tolerance- but Christmas is a Christian holiday, not a Pagan one or a Pastafarian one. The clue is in the name, folks.

    I don't think Christmas should be "inclusive"- people who celebrate other Gods should get their time off at their festival.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    :D

    Reminds me of a comment some American fruitcake made once regarding not being able to speak foreign languages: "If English is good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!"
    :lol: Classic.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    It's a Christian cultural holiday.
    Well actually, it's a Christian religious holiday, and a British/Western cultural holiday.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well actually, it's a Christian religious holiday, and a British/Western cultural holiday.


    :yes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    squeal wrote:
    Celebrating Christmas is a British Christian celebration,

    Do they not celebrate Xmas in other countries? :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    HIT wrote:
    Easter is another christian celebration,

    I think you mean that Easter is another pagan celebration. Eggs, bunnies, death & rebirth, even the timing of it (something to do with the new moon and the equinox). Hmmmmmmmm.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Will people please stop refering to Christmas as a British/ National holiday? It's an INTERNATIONAL holiday for fucks sake!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bluewisdom wrote:
    Will people please stop refering to Christmas as a British/ National holiday? It's an INTERNATIONAL holiday for fucks sake!
    Stating that it's part of british culture doesn't make it any less part of the culture of another country. The same with Halloween. It's part of British culture. It's part of American culture. It's part of Western culture. None of these statements overrides the other. Yes Christmas is an international holiday. It's also a British holiday.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And honeslty kermit, what are you on about? It's quite obvious that by now -sociologically speaking- Christmas has trascended its religious significance to being a cultural tradition for many countries in the world. But even so the 'true spirit' or whatever you want to call it keeps being one about peace and love for the world. Even if many people who don't believe in God or Jesus want to celebrate that, of course it's a good thing. And honestly, values like peace and love sound pretty Christian to me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Peace and love? It seems to be about nothing more than rampant consumerism.

    Look at how everyone was supposed to feel guilty because some kids won't get loads of crap this christmas because a company went bust.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Stating that it's part of british culture doesn't make it any less part of the culture of another country. The same with Halloween. It's part of British culture. It's part of American culture. It's part of Western culture. None of these statements overrides the other. Yes Christmas is an international holiday. It's also a British holiday.
    Yeah, sure one statement doesn't override the other technically, but it's a matter of where you put the accent on.

    If something was born in the UK (like Halloween) and then it expanded to other countries and regions then, sure, I wouldn't have a problem with you saying it was a British tradition because even if it is celebrated in other countries, the first thing that pops to mind is that it is British. But for a feast like Christmas which was imported from another region saying in first place that it is British, sounds a bit ethnocentric to me, that's all.
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